Phase of photon from excited atom

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the polarization state of a photon emitted by an excited hydrogen atom, specifically from the symmetric 2s state to the ground state. Participants explore the implications of this emission in terms of phase relations, polarization definitions, and the conditions affecting these properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the phase relation between the vertical and horizontal components of a photon emitted from an excited hydrogen atom is random or consistent across emissions.
  • Another participant suggests that considering harmonic plane electromagnetic waves may simplify the understanding of phase relations, noting that while components may not have the same phase everywhere, their phase difference remains constant.
  • A participant seeks clarification on whether the polarization state of the photon is well-defined or random, and if well-defined, what type it is (linear, circular, or elliptical).
  • One reply challenges the validity of the transition from the 2s to 1s state, stating it is forbidden without considering additional factors like spin-orbit coupling or multiphoton transitions, and suggests that polarization is well-defined in other transitions, such as from 2p_z to 1s.
  • Another participant elaborates on the factors influencing the polarization of spontaneous emission, indicating that it depends on the direction of oscillations of charges and the observer's position, while also noting that in the case of the 2s state, the dipole moment matrix element is zero, leading to no predicted radiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the photon polarization state and the validity of the atomic transition in question. There is no consensus on whether the polarization state is well-defined or random, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the transition from the 2s state.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific atomic transitions and the assumptions regarding the dipole moment matrix elements. The discussion also highlights the complexity of spontaneous emission and its polarization characteristics.

johne1618
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Imagine that an excited hydrogen atom in the symmetric 2s state emits a photon.

We use a birefringent crystal to split the photon into vertical and horizontal components.

Is the phase relation between these components random or is it the same for every photon emitted by a similarly excited hydrogen atom?
 
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I do not know what to say about photons, but if you consider harmonic plane EM wave instead, the answer should be simple. Assume that the Maxwell equations for dielectric are valid and that the wave goes left to right. The EM field has to be continuous across the boundary, so both components of the field are in phase with the field outside. This means that the two waves have to have the same phase just right of the boundary surface.

As the waves will move into the crystal medium with different velocities and different wavelengths, they can't have the same phase everywhere. However, their phase difference at any point will be constant, and equality will happen at special equidistant points.
 
I don't think I have expressed my question very well.

I am simply asking what is the polarization state of a photon emitted by an individual excited hydrogen atom transitioning from say the symmetric 2s state to the ground state.

Is the photon polarization state well-defined (i.e. the same for all similarly prepared excited atoms) or is it random?

If it is well-defined is it linear, circular or elliptical?
 
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The example is not a good one as the transition from 2s to 1s is forbidden as long as either spin-orbit coupling or multiphoton transitions aren't taken into account.
For e.g. a 2p_z to 1s transition the polarisation will be well defined but angle dependent given in terms of vector spherical harmonics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_spherical_harmonics
 
I am simply asking what is the polarization state of a photon emitted by an individual excited hydrogen atom transitioning from say the symmetric 2s state to the ground state.

Is the photon polarization state well-defined (i.e. the same for all similarly prepared excited atoms) or is it random?

The polarization of the spontaneous emission usually depends on two important things:

1) the direction of oscillations of the charges (matrix element of dipole moment operator between two eigenfunctions considered), given e.g. by some vector ##\mathbf s ##, or some other quantity (multipole elements...)
2) the direction of the line joining the atom and the observer, given e.g. by the vector ##\mathbf n##.

The polarization is then in the direction of the vector ##\mathbf n\times (\mathbf n \times \mathbf s )##.

In your case, the matrix element of the dipole moment is zero. In similar cases there can be still some radiation, and it still will be perpendicular to ##\mathbf n##, but it will be related to those other matrix elements of the pair of two eigenfunctions considered or some else property of the atom. But the case you consider, I think that DrDu is right, if you have both functions radially symmetric and do not consider other mechanisms, no radiation is predicted by the formalism.
 
Thanks for the replies!
 

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