Photon speed for an observer at the photon sphere

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the computation of the orbital period of a photon in Schwarzschild spacetime at the photon sphere, specifically for an observer located at the same radius, ##r^\star=3M##. Participants explore the implications of this calculation on the speed of light as perceived by the observer at the photon sphere.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant computes the orbital period of a photon as ##\Delta T=6\pi M## and questions whether they can infer that the speed of the photon is exactly ##c=1## for an observer at the photon sphere.
  • Another participant challenges the consistency of having a time coordinate difference of ##\Delta T = 6\pi M## while asserting that a local observer at ##r^\star## sees light traveling at ##c = 1##, citing gravitational time dilation effects.
  • A participant clarifies that ##\Delta T## refers to the orbital period of the photon and not the coordinate time difference, and suggests that locally the speed of light remains ##c## for the observer at the photon sphere.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the coordinate ##r## relates to the area of the sphere, noting that a light signal would take ##2\pi r/c## to complete a circuit for the local observer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the orbital period, the speed of light, and the effects of gravitational time dilation. There is no consensus on how these factors interact, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definition of the ##r## coordinate does not correspond to a radial distance, which may affect interpretations of the calculations. The implications of gravitational time dilation on the observations of the local observer are also highlighted as a point of contention.

alexriemann
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TL;DR
Photon speed for an observer at the photon sphere
I am asked to compute the orbital period of a photon, in the Scwarzschild spacetime, at the photon sphere for an observer at the same radius, ##r^\star=3M##. I have computed the result, ##\Delta T=6\pi M## where ##c=G=1## ,comparing with the proper time of an observer at infinity. However, as the result gives directly ##\Delta T=2\pi r^\star##, I wonder if I can skip making the calculation by inferring that, for the observer sitting at the photon sphere, the speed of the photon is exactly ##c=1##. If that is the case, how can I argue that this is true?
 
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Please show your computation.

Note that you cannot have a time coordinate difference of ##\Delta T = 6\pi M## at the same time as you are saying that a local hovering observer at ##r^\star## observes light to pass by at ##c = 1## as the hovering observer is gravitationally time dilated relative to the observer at infinity.
 
##\Delta T## is not the coordinate time difference, it is the orbital period of the photon for the observer sitting at the photon sphere. Actually, for the observer at infinity, the orbital period of the photon would be ##6\sqrt3\pi M##. Maybe ny notation wasn't clear.

My guess is that I can argue that locally the speed of light is always c, and for the observer at the same radius as of the photon, this remains true because the photon radius coordinate remains the same throughout its motion.
 
alexriemann said:
ΔT is not the coordinate time difference
I’m not sure how else to read this:
alexriemann said:
comparing with the proper time of an observer at infinity
But anyway …

Yes, the definition of the ##r## coordinate relates to the area of the sphere*. As such, a great circle on such a sphere will have circumference ##2\pi r## and it will take ##2\pi r/c## for a light singnal to go around for the local observer.

* Consequently note that ##r## does not correspond to a radial distance of any sort.
 

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