Investigating The Photon Sphere

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    Photon Sphere
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical functions related to the radius of a Schwarzschild black hole, specifically focusing on the escape velocity and the trajectory of photons escaping from the photon sphere. Participants explore theoretical aspects and mathematical formulations relevant to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks two specific functions: the escape velocity of a black hole for a vertical trajectory and the maximum angle for a photon to escape the photon sphere.
  • Another participant provides equations for escape velocity and maximum angle, referencing a textbook and a lecture, suggesting that the escape velocity is given by $$v = \sqrt{\frac{r_S}{r}}$$ and the maximum angle by $$\sin \theta = \frac{r_S}{2r} \sqrt{27 \left( 1 - \frac{r_S}{r} \right)}$$.
  • A participant clarifies that their interest in "vertical escape velocity" pertains to the minimum delta V required for a hovering vehicle to reach infinity, relating it to the equations provided.
  • There is a challenge to the accuracy of the equations presented, with a participant noting discrepancies between the provided equation and another source, suggesting that the latter does not yield correct results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the accuracy of the equations related to the maximum angle for photon escape, indicating a lack of consensus on the correct formulation. Some participants agree on the general approach but question specific details and results.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the derivation and accuracy of the equations discussed, as well as dependencies on the definitions of terms used in the context of Schwarzschild black holes.

.Scott
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TL;DR
Looking for 2 functions of the radius of a Schwarzschild Black Hole: the "vertical" escape velocity and the maximum angle for a photon to escape the photon sphere.
I've spent well over two hours searching the web for two functions of the radius of a Schwarzschild BH. One would give me the escape velocity of the BH assuming a perfectly vertical trajectory (so it isn't a normal escape velocity). The second relates to the trajectory of a photon that is outbound from inside the photon sphere. How far from vertical can its trajectory be and still escape?

For the first one, if I used the regular escape velocity formula - which happens to work at the event horizon, I get 0.8165 c (##(\sqrt{2/3})c##). But I have no faith in that result.

For the second one, clearly at the event horizon, only a vertical trajectory will allow the photon to reach the photon sphere - and even then, with no remaining energy ("fully" red-shifted). So if the radius is measured in Schwarzschild radii, then at the EH ##f(1)=0##. At the photon sphere ##f(1.5)=\pi/2##. But I would not hazard a guess as to what that function is. ... Or maybe I will: ##f(r)=arctan((2r-2)/(3-2r))## ?? Not likely.

BTW: I hope you don't mind layers because the reason I am trying to get these equations is to prepare another PF post.
 
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.Scott said:
Summary:: Looking for 2 functions of the radius of a Schwarzschild Black Hole: the "vertical" escape velocity and the maximum angle for a photon to escape the photon sphere.

Velocity and angle with respect to what?

Consider an observer who uses a rocket to hover at constant ##r##, ##\theta##, ##\phi##. With respect to this hovering observer, the escape velocity is

$$v = \sqrt{\frac{r_S}{r}}$$
and the maximum angle from vertical for escape by light is

$$\sin \theta = \frac{r_S}{2r} \sqrt{27 \left( 1 - \frac{r_S}{r} \right)}.$$
Here, ##r_S## is the Schwarzschild radius, and ##r## is the ##r## coordinate of the hovering observer.

This is in the first edition of "Exploring Black Holes" by Taylor and Wheeler. A lecture based on this book is
https://web.stanford.edu/~oas/SI/SRGR/notes/SRGRLect11_2004.pdf
 
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Thanks @George Jones :
I have downloaded that page and will read it in full (it's only 13 ages).

The "vertical escape velocity" I was asking about is the minimum delta V, proper to a hovering vehicle, that would launch the vehicle to infinity. Alternatively, it is the delta V relative to a vehicle that has been dropped towards the BH from infinity that would be required to stop that vehicle.

The equation that you provided is the one that I used to compute my guess at this vertical escape velocity at the photon sphere (##r=1.5\times r_s##). So I'll score myself a lucky guess.

I notice that the paper you cited for the second equation provides a full derivation for that equation. ... and I should be able to follow it

Thanks again.
@.Scott
 
George Jones said:
and the maximum angle from vertical for escape by light is

$$\sin \theta = \frac{r_S}{2r} \sqrt{27 \left( 1 - \frac{r_S}{r} \right)}.$$
Here, ##r_S## is the Schwarzschild radius, and ##r## is the ##r## coordinate of the hovering observer.

This is in the first edition of "Exploring Black Holes" by Taylor and Wheeler. A lecture based on this book is
https://web.stanford.edu/~oas/SI/SRGR/notes/SRGRLect11_2004.pdf
@George Jones

You and (I presume) the book are right.

But from the bottom of page 8 of the lecture notes you provided:
$$\sin \theta_{shell\space critical} = \frac{\sqrt{27}}{2}\frac{R_S}{r} \left( 1 - \frac{R_S}{r} \right)$$.

This is not the same as your equation - and it does not produce correct results. Also, those lecture notes match up 2.16GM/c^2 with a horizon view of 147 degrees. But to get 147, you need to start with about 2.18.

And thanks again - because even using your equation as a starting point in a Google search, I still can't find this online.
 
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