Physics Careers: Expectations vs. Reality

[Surf_and_Sky]

Hi Everyone. I graduated with a PhD in physics from UC Irvine. I'm struggling a bit in my career because I'm wondering if my expectations for the type of work that is actually available in industry to physics PhDs isn't really in line with reality. I spent my time in graduate school working in a lab inventing things, building things, bolting, soldering, drilling, gluing, building experiments, creating CAD drawings of parts and building them in the machine shop, taking data, and writing papers. It was a hands-on design-build-test way of working, and I really liked it.

The thing is, it seems that this type of work is virtually non-existent in industry. My hope of using my creativity and hands-on laboratory skills to solve real-world problems by inventing things was perhaps more fantasy than reality. First, I'm having trouble finding a job listing in my US state that even requires a PhD in physics (outside of academia). I live in a metro area with more than a million people, and there are lots and lots of job listings for people with a bachelor's degree in engineering, but hardly anyone is asking for a physics PhD. Second, even if I did get one of these jobs, the reality of engineering jobs is not "building stuff" or "inventing things," but is actually a lot of meetings, paperwork, bureaucracy, regulation compliance, reports, risk reduction, emails, etc. There are a few job listings in my field at out-of-state laboratories, but I'd have to move to a different state, which I don't want to do.

I look at the jobs that my fellow graduate students actually got after graduation, and almost none of them has a job doing the type of work I did in grad school. Instead, the jobs that most of them actually got are data science jobs. Even the ones that got laboratory jobs are working in industries that are very slow-moving, with progress taking years or decades to measure. I do have some peers who got jobs doing engineering-type work, but they could have gotten those jobs with just a bachelor's in engineering, instead of taking the time to get a PhD in physics.

Even though I did a postdoc at a prestigious institution, I'm feeling like the promise of the industry job market for physics PhDs doesn't match the reality, even for highly qualified people. It's not that I'm getting beaten out by someone with better skills, it's more like there's nothing to apply to. The jobs for physics PhDs just aren't there - for anyone.

Can someone give me a reality check here?

 

[Choppy]

I think your revised assessment is accurate. Outside of academia, the skill sets in demand tend to be quite specific and driven by industry demand. That means, as you've indicated, navigating industrial bureaucracy, safety and compliance with standards, project management, etc. Most physics PhDs are able to make the jump, but they're not generally doing the same kind of academic work that they were doing during their PhD. Rather, they identify a marketable subset of skills (data science work, programming, etc.) and translate that.

The APS tends to keep data and has some useful resources to help with this transition...
https://www.aps.org/careers

 

[gleem]

Companies are looking for problem solvers and to provide directions for others to implement the solutions.

The American Institute of Physics also has a lot of info on jobs and skills employers are looking for example, who is hiring PhDs and what are the required skills.

https://www.aip.org/statistics/whos-hiring-physics-phds

AI will be more important than ever. Here is what companies expect you to use AI for.

https://www.aip.org/statistics/for-...-degree-recipients-from-academic-year-2023-24

There are a few job listings in my field at out-of-state laboratories, but I'd have to move to a different state, which I don't want to do.

I'm afraid that if you do not move, you will greatly handicap your ability to find a satisfactory job.

One possibility for more hands-on development work is "startup" companies in your field. But finding them may require a lot of work and most likely moving.

 

[CrysPhys]

There are a few job listings in my field at out-of-state laboratories, but I'd have to move to a different state, which I don't want to do.

What state are you in now? You either (1) move to where the types of jobs you want are, or (2) stay put and pivot to jobs that are available where you are now. [A third alternative (become an independent consultant and travel to short-term assignments) doesn't apply to you because you're a newbie.]

I'm retired now, but experienced several industry downturns and many rounds of layoffs. My number one priority was stability for my family. I originally got my PhD in Physics, specializing in experimental solid-state physics. My first job was in industrial R&D for optoelectronic devices. When that crashed, I became a quality improvement engineer in optical fiber transmission systems. When that crashed, I became various flavors of telcom engineer for mobile network systems. When that crashed, I left industry and became a patent agent in a law firm. It was stable work until I retired ~9 yrs later.

On the other hand, a co-worker of mine in my first job (R&D for optoelectronic devices) was hell-bent on staying in the same field. Over the course of ~10 yrs, he lived in ~5 states, dragging his wife and kids with him. Another co-worker moved out of state, leaving wife and kids behind. He was a weekend dad for ~10 yrs.

I don't know what your family situation is. But these are not easy decisions to make. I made the decision that was right for me and my family. My co-workers made the decisions that were right for them and their families. But at some point, you need to realize you can't have it all; you need to make compromises.

 

[Surf_and_Sky]

What state are you in now? You either (1) move to where the types of jobs you want are, or (2) stay put and pivot to jobs that are available where you are now. [A third alternative (become an independent consultant and travel to short-term assignments) doesn't apply to you because you're a newbie.]

I'm retired now, but experienced several industry downturns and many rounds of layoffs. My number one priority was stability for my family. I originally got my PhD in Physics, specializing in experimental solid-state physics. My first job was in industrial R&D for optoelectronic devices. When that crashed, I became a quality improvement engineer in optical fiber transmission systems. When that crashed, I became various flavors of telcom engineer for mobile network systems. When that crashed, I left industry and became a patent agent in a law firm. It was stable work until I retired ~9 yrs later.

On the other hand, a co-worker of mine in my first job (R&D for optoelectronic devices) was hell-bent on staying in the same field. Over the course of ~10 yrs, he lived in ~5 states, dragging his wife and kids with him. Another co-worker moved out of state, leaving wife and kids behind. He was a weekend dad for ~10 yrs.

I don't know what your family situation is. But these are not easy decisions to make. I made the decision that was right for me and my family. My co-workers made the decisions that were right for them and their families. But at some point, you need to realize you can't have it all; you need to make compromises.

I'm in Utah. I appreciate your response on this. This is an expectations vs. reality thread, so I'll continue with that. Conventional wisdom and cultural narratives would state that it should have been positively raining jobs once I got my physics PhD. Well, that's not the reality. I'm still reeling from the shock of this. I see the tradeoffs that people have to make - tradeoffs between the type of physics work they want to do and the jobs that are available in their geographic area, plus all sorts of other tradeoffs. But that wasn't the promise of a PhD. It was supposed to be a golden ticket, if I believe the cultural narratives.

The data posted by AIP says that 27% of physics PhDs have jobs in physics. First off, that seems lower than I would have expected, taken at face value. But if we dig a little deeper, we see that this 27% statistic includes a lot of physics-adjacent jobs, where people work at physics-focused institutions, but they aren't actually doing physics (these would be jobs like Compliance officer, Quality Control, etc). So if we look at the number of physics PhDs who are doing actual deep technical work in physics as a major part of their job, the real number is closer to 5-10%.

 

[gleem]

You didn't mention what your area of expertise. Does it match current industry interests or future interests?

 

[CrysPhys]

I'm in Utah. I appreciate your response on this. This is an expectations vs. reality thread, so I'll continue with that. Conventional wisdom and cultural narratives would state that it should have been positively raining jobs once I got my physics PhD. Well, that's not the reality. I'm still reeling from the shock of this. I see the tradeoffs that people have to make - tradeoffs between the type of physics work they want to do and the jobs that are available in their geographic area, plus all sorts of other tradeoffs. But that wasn't the promise of a PhD. It was supposed to be a golden ticket, if I believe the cultural narratives.

The data posted by AIP says that 27% of physics PhDs have jobs in physics. First off, that seems lower than I would have expected, taken at face value. But if we dig a little deeper, we see that this 27% statistic includes a lot of physics-adjacent jobs, where people work at physics-focused institutions, but they aren't actually doing physics (these would be jobs like Compliance officer, Quality Control, etc). So if we look at the number of physics PhDs who are doing actual deep technical work in physics as a major part of their job, the real number is closer to 5-10%.

<<Emphasis added>>

(1) So does Utah have a hi-tech hub brimming with companies that would hire PhD physicists? For comparison, think of Silicon Valley in CA or the Greater Boston-Cambridge area in MA.

(2) "Conventional wisdom", "cultural narratives", "positively raining jobs", "promise of a PhD", "golden ticket" ... In high school I had one particularly tough English teacher. When he was editing papers, he was fond of underlining egregious phrases or passages in red and adding the single comment "Gobbledygook!!!". He would have done the same here.

What were your sources for these golden-ticket promises? What were your expectations based on? Your professors? Your university physics departments? Industry representatives? Other physicists? The APS? The AIP? The BLS? LinkedIn? Indeed? Glassdoor? .... The APS and AIP have been publishing career data for decades. They have also run articles and workshops on jobs for physicists, both 'mainstream' (however you wish to interpret that) and alternative. If your notion of a dream job was high on your priority list, why weren't you evaluating and re-evaluating your probability of success at various stages of your life? When you decided to major in physics as an undergrad? When you applied for a PhD program? When you applied for a postdoc? When you decided that Utah was where you wanted to put down roots? Why so late in the game? You forged your own expectations, made your own decisions, and now are blaming 'others' for having misled you because your own expectations are not being fulfilled: not only a narrowly defined dream job in physics per se, but also in a location that you dictate.

 

[Choppy]

Conventional wisdom and cultural narratives would state that it should have been positively raining jobs once I got my physics PhD.

I think this idea floats around out there... particularly propagated by those who aren't in the game themselves.

The average professor will train about 10 PhDs over their career (that's a Fermi estimate, not a precise value). Of those, one will take over when that professor retires. Maybe another one might get a "physics-adjacent job" And then maybe you've got a second order correction for growth in the field. But everyone else will need to leave academia.

The outlook is generally much better in the professional branches of physics: medical physics and geophysics. In these sub-fields, once you have a PhD, there are an industries that need your specific skill set (although with medical physics you need to complete a residency, which introduces another bottleneck).