Piecewise knowledge of mathematics.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the perceived fragmentation of mathematical knowledge in education and its impact on students aspiring to study physics. Participants explore the gaps in their mathematical understanding, particularly in calculus, algebra, and trigonometry, and seek recommendations for comprehensive textbooks that cover these subjects effectively.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses frustration with the fragmented nature of mathematics education, suggesting that the separation of topics contributes to a lack of cohesive understanding.
  • Another participant recommends using Khan Academy for foundational mathematics up to calculus, along with supplementary engineering books and problem-solving resources.
  • A question is raised about what constitutes "useful" mathematics, challenging the notion of certain topics being deemed unnecessary.
  • Several participants suggest advanced texts in real analysis, indicating a desire for deeper mathematical understanding beyond calculus.
  • Concerns are voiced about the readiness of students to tackle advanced topics like real analysis without a solid grasp of calculus and trigonometry.
  • One participant defends the importance of algebra II and foundational topics, arguing that they are essential for success in physics and mathematics.
  • A link to a self-consistent algebra resource is provided for those needing to strengthen their basic skills.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the value of certain mathematical topics and the best resources for learning. There is no consensus on what constitutes "useless" mathematics, and differing opinions on the necessity of foundational knowledge persist.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about their mathematical skills and the adequacy of their current knowledge base, highlighting potential gaps that may affect their studies in physics. The discussion reflects varying perspectives on the educational curriculum and its effectiveness in preparing students for advanced topics.

cavemen
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Hello.

I am a college freshman.
All the sudden I understood that school taught me fragments of mathematics, not the whole thing. Different low-grade teachers that would teach us to solve a lot of simple problems fast for tests like SAT instead of learning mathematics.

I want to become a physicist.

There is a problem.
I know fragments of calculus, algebra and trigonometry. As I read into calculus textbook I understood that.

I want you to suggest me a good textbook that would cover all the necessary subjects of mathematics from Algebra to Calculus. (not useless stuff like solving quadratic equations by so-called factoring)


Also the separation onto Algebra I, ALgebra II,Trigonometry,and calculus exists only for educators, but I am certain that it CONTRIBUTED to the problem of fragmental knowledge of mathematics. I come to a new level and I am tought stuff but when we reach the end, we run out of time. Then I go to a higher level of mathematics an I am missing some basic knowledge. And so on it went,'till I got all my credits and realized that high school is a big waste of time.



Since I am not the greatest mathematitian I would like to have a textbook where everything is written in a form of 'identity' or " this equates to this " form.

This is the way I noticed that I learn well.

I simply don't know where to begin with.
If you are an educator, please take note of what I am saying as this may be a problem with some of your students.

Thank you.
Have a great day.
 
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Physics news on Phys.org
www.khanacademy.org

If you study all of the mathematics up through calculus on this site, and supplement yourself with an engineering book like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/0750685557/?tag=pfamazon01-20 to practice doing questions & problem solving etc... then in about a month or so (hopefully quicker!) you'll be able to start studying a good physics book like University Physics https://www.amazon.com/dp/080538684X/?tag=pfamazon01-20 , this physics book is simply the best and clearest intro there is (IMO).

I really mean it when I say do ALL of the math on that site, khanacademy, & definitely get at least the engineering book because it covers all of the basic math & calculus needed for University Physics. Furthermore, I advise getting Schaums 3000 solved problems after you finish a good few chapters of University Physics to have another source for testing yourself. Btw, to have khanacademy.org available to you is very lucky for you, the guy will explain things so well that you'll feel confident enough in your math after going through ALL of the videos, but get another book to test yourself!

When you're up to at least the calculus stuff on both Khanacademy & in the engineering book I really advise you to get a good calculus book too, at least Stewart Calculus or Thomas Calculus.

Then if you finish all this stuff you'll be able to move on to other stuff, but it takes time & continual failure/re-starts lol
 
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cavemen said:
(not useless stuff like solving quadratic equations by so-called factoring)
Can you then tell me what is useful maths?
 
http://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~wchen/ln.html"

Too me, it sounds like you crave a book in real analysis. I gone through the same thing after I completed Calculus. Try
Real Analysis-Haasar, Sullivan or
Introductory Real Analysis-Kolmogorov or
Principals of Mathematical Analysis-Rudin
 
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Thank you.
I think i found something, but let me look up the name of the author.

------------------------------
there are a lot of useless parts of math that they teach in school to fill up the cariculum
especially algebraII course.
 
If you want an excellent textbook I would highly recommend https://www.amazon.com/dp/0471198269/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Preferably purchase it as it will have all the basic and advance maths you need to know to become a physicist. Alternatively, hire it from your nearest university library.
 
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The guy saids he knows fragments of trigonometry & calculus, how can you expect him to cope with real analysis? Or Mary Boas book? I mean, you can't get into any of the substance of Boas' book without the calculus, end of! (unfortunately know this from experience).

I bet you'll waste a load of time before you come back and clear up your trigonometry skills, let alone calculus skills. It is a guarantee that you'll only have to stop your studies of physics to go back over the essentials, again and again if you don't do it properly.


EDIT: You must be joking claiming algebra II is a waste of time.

Good luck with that arrogance, I didn't know I wasted my time with "filler" material like logs, exponents, factoring quadratics & cubics, it's not like these things ever come up when doing physics, they are not on nearly every page or anything...

I hope you update us on your progress through physics & calculus seeing as you don't appreciate/know how to factor a quadratic. I mean, yahoo answers can only give the right answers so many times...


http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/Alg/Alg.aspx

That is a self consistent pdf of all of the basic algebra you'll need to actually do some physics, if you a) don't know all this stuff cold, & b) get some supplementary material so that you can do practice problems, I won't feel sorry for you when you get so frustrated that you feel like quitting the study of physics due to math related injuries...
 
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