Pisano Periods - Fibonacci Numbers mod p

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Pisano periods of Fibonacci numbers modulo prime numbers, particularly focusing on the conditions under which these periods can be determined. Participants explore the mathematical properties of Pisano periods, divisors related to specific primes, and the implications of these properties for both prime and composite numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the Pisano period length h(p) for primes p congruent to 2 or 3 mod 5, suggesting it divides 2p + 2.
  • Others propose that if p has a primitive root, then h(p) equals p - 1, while if it does not, h(p) is determined by the divisors of p - 1.
  • There is mention of the relationship between Fibonacci numbers and their Pisano periods, particularly how h(Fm) can be expressed differently based on whether m is even or odd.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the notation used for divisors, particularly the meaning of di ~| expressions, and seeks clarification.
  • Another participant acknowledges the non-standard notation and attempts to clarify it, noting a specific case for p = 2 where the previously stated h(p) does not hold.
  • Discussion includes observations about the behavior of Pisano periods for composites ending in specific digits, suggesting a potential test for identifying primes based on their Pisano periods.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the properties of Pisano periods but express differing views on the implications of certain conditions, particularly regarding the notation and specific cases like p = 2. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications for composites and the validity of the tests proposed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their discussions, particularly regarding the notation used for divisors and the specific cases for certain primes. There is also mention of the need for further observations and clarifications on the topic.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying number theory, particularly in relation to Fibonacci sequences, modular arithmetic, and the properties of prime numbers.

LDP
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Let Fn be the nth number of a Fibonacci sequence.
We know that Fnmod(p) forms a periodic sequence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisano_period) called the Pisano Period.
Let p = a prime such that p\equiv{2,3}mod 5 so that h(p)\mid 2 p + 2.
Let h(p) denote of the length of the Pisano period.

If D = {d1,d2,d3\cdotsdk} is the non-empty set of k divisors of 2 p + 2
Then:
h(p) = min[di] such that Fd(i + 1)\equiv 1 mod p
and
  1. di ~\mid\frac{1}{2} p (p + 1)
  2. di ~\mid p + 1
  3. di ~\mid 3 (p - 1)

Now let p = a prime such that p\equiv{1,4}mod 5 so that h(p)\mid p - 1.
If p has a primitive root such that g2\equiv g + 1 mod(p) then h(p) = p - 1.
Note that g2\equiv g + 1 mod(p) has two roots: 1.618033988 and -0.618033988 - variants of the Golden Ratio.
If p has no primitive root then D = {d1,d2,d3\cdotsdk} is the non-empty set of k divisors of p - 1.
Let h(p) = min[di] such that Fd(i + 1)\equiv 1 mod p
and
di ~\mid p + 1 and di ~\mid floor [ p/2]].

If m is any positive integer > 3 we can write Fn mod Fm where h(Fm) is given by
  1. h(Fm) = 2mm is even
  2. h(Fm) = 4mm is odd
 
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LDP said:
Let Fn be the nth number of a Fibonacci sequence.
We know that Fnmod(p) forms a periodic sequence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisano_period) called the Pisano Period.
Let p = a prime such that p\equiv{2,3}mod 5 so that h(p)\mid 2 p + 2.
Let h(p) denote of the length of the Pisano period.

If D = {d1,d2,d3\cdotsdk} is the non-empty set of k divisors of 2 p + 2
Then:
h(p) = min[di] such that Fd(i + 1)\equiv 1 mod p
and
  1. di ~\mid\frac{1}{2} p (p + 1)
  2. di ~\mid p + 1
  3. di ~\mid 3 (p - 1)

Now let p = a prime such that p\equiv{1,4}mod 5 so that h(p)\mid p - 1.
If p has a primitive root such that g2\equiv g + 1 mod(p) then h(p) = p - 1.
Note that g2\equiv g + 1 mod(p) has two roots: 1.618033988 and -0.618033988 - variants of the Golden Ratio.
If p has no primitive root then D = {d1,d2,d3\cdotsdk} is the non-empty set of k divisors of p - 1.
Let h(p) = min[di] such that Fd(i + 1)\equiv 1 mod p
and
di ~\mid p + 1 and di ~\mid floor [ p/2]].

If m is any positive integer > 3 we can write Fn mod Fm where h(Fm) is given by
  1. h(Fm) = 2mm is even
  2. h(Fm) = 4mm is odd
Interesting to say the least. I am curious as to what is meant by
  1. di ~\mid\frac{1}{2} p (p + 1)
  2. di ~\mid p + 1
  3. di ~\mid 3 (p - 1)
I think you are saying di approximately divides the expressions on the right, but I don't know what that means. Can you give an example?
 
:smile: Thanks.

No, I was trying to find - does not divide - but couldn't so I sort of made that up.
But perhaps I should clarify it, because it is not the standard notation.
 
LDP said:
:smile: Thanks.

No, I was trying to find - does not divide - but couldn't so I sort of made that up.
But perhaps I should clarify it, because it is not the standard notation.

Clarification noted. Only problem that I see is for p = 2 (for which you say h(p) = 2p + 2 = 6). Since h(2) = 3, I guess you meant odd primes that = 2,3, mod 5 (whose last digit is either a 3 or 7). PS, I noted that for the composites ending in 3 or 7 which I checked, that h(p) <> 2p + 2. Could this be a test for primes ending in 3 or 7?
 
ramsey2879 said:
Clarification noted. Only problem that I see is for p = 2 (for which you say h(p) = 2p + 2 = 6). Since h(2) = 3, I guess you meant odd primes that = 2,3, mod 5 (whose last digit is either a 3 or 7). PS, I noted that for the composites ending in 3 or 7 which I checked, that h(p) <> 2p + 2. Could this be a test for primes ending in 3 or 7?

Indeed, I should have said "only odd primes".
Good catch.:approve:
I will add some more observations on this topic as time permits.
 
ramsey2879 said:
Clarification noted. Only problem that I see is for p = 2 (for which you say h(p) = 2p + 2 = 6). Since h(2) = 3, I guess you meant odd primes that = 2,3, mod 5 (whose last digit is either a 3 or 7). PS, I noted that for the composites ending in 3 or 7 which I checked, that h(p) <> 2p + 2. Could this be a test for primes ending in 3 or 7?

I checked and found that the following composites ending in 7 have Pisano periods that divide 2p + 2 and do not divide (1/2)*p(p+1) or p+1 or 3p-3. (All primes ending in 7 less than 100,000 meet this test also). The composites ending in 7 and less than 100,000 meeting the test are 377, 3827, 5777, 10877, 25877, 60377, 75077 and 90287.
 

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