Plank's constant, phase integral and quantization of action

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between Planck's constant, the concept of action in classical mechanics, and the quantization of action as described by the Wilson-Sommerfeld rule. Participants explore the implications of these concepts in both classical and quantum contexts, raising questions about their connections and interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the statement that "Planck's constant is a unit of action," questioning the implications of this characterization and its connection to the phase integral.
  • Another participant asserts that Planck's constant has units of angular momentum, suggesting a distinction between units and identity.
  • A participant reiterates the initial inquiry about deriving the quantization of action from the relationship between the phase integral and Planck's energy quantization, referencing the formula for action in classical mechanics.
  • There is a suggestion that one can consider virtual displacements of the generalized coordinate to analyze the quantization further.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between Planck's constant and action, nor on the derivation of quantization from the discussed principles. Multiple viewpoints and interpretations are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential ambiguities in the definitions and relationships between action, Planck's constant, and the phase integral, which may depend on specific interpretations or contexts within classical and quantum mechanics.

phonon44145
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I apologize in advance if this is too trivial, but...

Time and again, I hear something along the lines of "Plank's constant is a unit of action", or "Plank's constant is a unit of action in the old quantum theory". In addition, many texts imply some sort of connection between quantization of action and the phase integral. For example, the Eisberg-Resnik textbook (2 ed, p. 112) has this to say about the Wilson-Sommerfeld rule: "The quantity Integral (p dx) is sometimes called a phase integral, in classical physics it is the integral of he dynamical quantity called the action over one oscillation of the motion. Hence, the Plank energy quantization is equivalent to the quantization of action".

Now, as far as I understand Classical Mechanics, the relevant formula for action says

dS = pdq - Hdt

where S is action, p and q are the generalized momentum and coordinate, and H is the Hamiltonian. Then if we require that the phase integral is quantized according to Wilson-Sommerfeld rule, Integral (pdx) = nh, then it only follows that the Plank energy quantization is equivalent to the quantization of the quantity S + Integral (Hdt). How does one derive quantization of S from here?
 
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Planck's constant has units of angular momentum
 
Obviously. And it also has units of action. But saying "it has units of" is not the same as saying "it is identical to".
 
phonon44145 said:
I apologize in advance if this is too trivial, but...

Time and again, I hear something along the lines of "Plank's constant is a unit of action", or "Plank's constant is a unit of action in the old quantum theory". In addition, many texts imply some sort of connection between quantization of action and the phase integral. For example, the Eisberg-Resnik textbook (2 ed, p. 112) has this to say about the Wilson-Sommerfeld rule: "The quantity Integral (p dx) is sometimes called a phase integral, in classical physics it is the integral of he dynamical quantity called the action over one oscillation of the motion. Hence, the Plank energy quantization is equivalent to the quantization of action".

Now, as far as I understand Classical Mechanics, the relevant formula for action says

dS = pdq - Hdt

where S is action, p and q are the generalized momentum and coordinate, and H is the Hamiltonian. Then if we require that the phase integral is quantized according to Wilson-Sommerfeld rule, Integral (pdx) = nh, then it only follows that the Plank energy quantization is equivalent to the quantization of the quantity S + Integral (Hdt). How does one derive quantization of S from here?

You can take dq to be virtual displacements of q, which keeps time fixed.
 

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