Plasmatic Ionization in Stellar Nucleosynthesis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of plasmatic ionization in stellar nucleosynthesis, particularly focusing on the extent of ionization required for nuclear fusion processes such as the PP Chain, Triple α Process, and CNO Cycle. Participants explore the nature of ionization in stellar environments and its implications for fusion reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Noah questions whether ionization in stellar nucleosynthesis strips only the outer shell of electrons or if all electrons are removed to facilitate fusion.
  • One participant asserts that deep inside the sun, all electrons are stripped from light elements involved in fusion.
  • Noah follows up, asking if this complete ionization applies to higher mass element burning, such as lithium in brown dwarfs.
  • Another participant explains that the core of the sun's high temperature (about 15 million K) is sufficient to ionize all light atoms and that higher temperatures are required for fusing heavier nuclei, while also noting that fusion is primarily a nuclear process that is largely independent of electrons.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that plasma is not strictly required for fusion, proposing that mechanisms such as thermal movement or zero-point motion allow nuclei to overcome Coulomb repulsion, and raises the question of whether a cold and dense environment conducive to pycnonuclear reactions qualifies as a "plasma."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of plasma for fusion processes and the extent of ionization, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of plasma and the conditions under which nuclear reactions occur, as well as the unresolved nature of how different types of stellar environments affect ionization and fusion.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in astrophysics, stellar processes, and nuclear fusion may find the discussion relevant.

leprechaunne
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So, I'm not a student in physics. Or astronomy. I'm actually a med student, just fairly curious.
In stellar nucleosynthesis, plasma is required to fuse the particles from my understanding. In trying to record all the various reactions (PP Chain, Triple α Process, CNO Cycle), but I can't find how extreme this ionization is. Does it strip only the outer shell? Or are all of the electrons removed to allow fusion?
Thanks,
Noah
 
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Deep inside the sun all electrons are stripped, particularly for light elements involved in fusion.
 
mathman said:
Deep inside the sun all electrons are stripped, particularly for light elements involved in fusion.

Thanks! This implies answers to other questions I had too :) So does this apply to higher mass element burning as well? I mean, when lithium burns in brown dwarfs, the Li nucleus is free of electrons?
 
The core of the sun has a temperature of about 15 million K, which corresponds to an energy of about 1 keV. That is sufficient to ionize all light atoms. Stars that fuse heavier nuclei have an even higher temperature. In addition, the density is so high regular orbits (like for free atoms) wouldn't fit anyway.

Not that it would matter - fusion is a pure nuclear process, and the nuclei don't care about the electrons (apart from the pep reaction of course).
 
leprechaunne said:
In stellar nucleosynthesis, plasma is required to fuse the particles from my understanding. In trying to record all the various reactions (PP Chain, Triple α Process, CNO Cycle), but I can't find how extreme this ionization is. Does it strip only the outer shell? Or are all of the electrons removed to allow fusion?
Thanks,
Noah

Plasma is not required.
What is needed is some mechanism to allow the nuclei to meet each other in spite of Coulomb repulsion.

This can be either thermal movement, or zero-point motion, or both.

The matter is that sufficient thermal movement to allow nuclei to meet tends to excite electrons so much that they are not bound to and much concentrated around nuclei.

But is cold and dense environment which is dense enough for appreciable pycnonuclear reactions a "plasma"?
 

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