Please Stop comparing everything with Adolf Hitler

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the frequent comparisons made between various issues and Adolf Hitler or the Holocaust, particularly in the context of political and social debates. Participants explore the implications of such comparisons, their emotional weight, and the potential misuse of historical analogies in contemporary arguments.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern that comparisons to Hitler and the Holocaust diminish the seriousness of those historical events and make arguments appear uneducated.
  • Others argue that such comparisons are often used when original arguments lack substance.
  • A participant highlights the Vatican's historical silence during World War II and questions its implications regarding moral stances on contemporary issues like abortion.
  • There are references to Godwin's Law, suggesting that discussions often devolve into comparisons with Hitler too quickly.
  • Some participants assert that while comparisons can be problematic, they may also serve as a warning against the rise of totalitarian regimes.
  • One participant draws a parallel between the Holocaust and the Rwandan genocide, emphasizing the scale of violence in both events.
  • Another participant critiques the habit of making comparisons as a distraction from focused inquiry, suggesting it undermines scientific practices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the appropriateness of making comparisons to Hitler or the Holocaust. There are multiple competing views regarding the validity and implications of such comparisons, with some advocating for their cessation and others defending their use in specific contexts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference historical events and figures, such as the Vatican's role during World War II and the nature of fascism, but these discussions remain complex and nuanced without clear resolutions or agreements on interpretations.

jaap de vries
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I noticed in many threads that many things are compared to Adolf Hitler and the Gestapo etc.
Why don't we just decide here that we will stop doing that ok, it makes people sound very uneducated.

The other day I saw anti-abortion protesters comparing abortion with the holocaust including graphical pictures of dead Jews piled up. Question, if abortion and the holocaust are so similar than why did the pope conveniently remained silent during WOII and is he screaming murder now about abortion?
Just an observation I made.

Jaap
 
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jaap de vries said:
The other day I saw anti-abortion protesters comparing abortion with the holocaust including graphical pictures of dead Jews piled up. Question, if abortion and the holocaust are so similar than why did the pope conveniently remained silent during WOII and is he screaming murder now about abortion?
Just an observation I made.

Jaap

You do realize where the Vatican is right...
 
I've never made such a comparison.

Anyways, agreed, entirely.
 
rachmaninoff said:
Grrrrr!

Thanks for proving my point?
 
I think people use comparisons when they can't prove their original argument just doesn't cut it.
 
What point? You professed ignorance of the Vatican's importance in the second world war, of their role in rescuing hundreds of Jews into Palestine, of their professed silence and lack of condemnation for the Nazi atrocities. I posted several links with exposition on these facts. Everyone knows where the Vatican is located - and I have no idea what point you were trying to make. Fragmented half-sentence posts don't help any.
 
rachmaninoff said:
What point? You professed ignorance of the Vatican's importance in the second world war, of their role in rescuing hundreds of Jews into Palestine, of their professed silence and lack of condemnation for the Nazi atrocities. I posted several links with exposition on these facts. Everyone knows where the Vatican is located - and I have no idea what point you were trying to make. Fragmented half-sentence posts don't help any.

The OP said the Vatican remained silent. Logic tells us that there is a very good reason why they MIGHT have remained silent, that is what i was talking about.
 
The Vatican is in Rome, Rome is in Italy, Mussolini was the Facist dictator of Italy, who were Allies of the Nazi's. Hitler actually was insipired by that Man

If you were a small "country" inside a large country being run by Facists defened by the smallest private army (The swiss Guard) with one of the Largest armies every assembled outside your door, what would you do??

Anyway what point are you trying to make? It doesn't seem like you have one
 
  • #10
I think the point was, although using a very bad analogy, that bad analogies are used too often :P. I previously made a threat registering my disgust at how people make insane Hitler/nazi/ww2/holocaust comparisons. I know I had hit the nail when a lot of the moderates from the PW&A forum knew exactly what I was talking about and the extremists came in and said, for example, outrageous things like how Abu Graib (sp?) was "exactly" (exactly!) like Auschwitz.
 
  • #11
Although I don't like Bush :)

He isn't Hitler, and to be frank there isn't any place on the planet right now even in N.Korea, or Zimbabwe that can be compared to the Nazi regim that was in Germany.

I would recommend people read a book called: Garden of the Beasts by Jeffery Deaver. If they want to have an insite of what was going through the Nazi's minds. Its not comparable to anything right now..
 
  • #12
The one thing i can actually say is comparable to the Holocaust was what happened in Rwanda. I say this simply because of one thing, people were being killed at rates comparable to the Holocaust. Let's all thank god that that didn't have the same time frame as well!

It's pretty depressing to see the statistics from the Holocaust. Statistics normally don't really tell you the whole story and then there's the whole idea that "statistics can be made to say anything"...but when you see those statistics, its depressing to realize words and numbers will never do justice to what really happened. You see some of those pictures and you really... kinda wish this never happened... that humans can't be THAT evil.
 
  • #13
Discussion that end in comparing with Hitler are subject of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law]Godwin[/PLAIN] law. An example http://www.cei.org/GENCON/019,04013.CFM .

Apart from the emotional load of this kind of discussion, perhaps it is still a mystery to be solved how a single lunatic managed to become the undisputed deity of an entire population. How can we prevent it from happening ever again? Not by applying taboo rules on the subject.
 
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  • #14
I remember one time that russ just cracked me up. Some guy made some argument, nothing bad at all right... Well the FIRST reply was someone calling part of the argument comparable to Nazism or something and russ came in and goes "wow, I never knew I'd have to invoke Godwin's law on the very first post!"
 
  • #15
jaap de vries said:
I noticed in many threads that many things are compared to Adolf Hitler and the Gestapo etc.
Why don't we just decide here that we will stop doing that ok, it makes people sound very uneducated.

well right-wingers misuse words like communist, marxist, liberal, anarchist words all the time. when wil they stop assuming that, for example, Canada building a national power grid is something that kim kong il would do here? (someone said that on another forum)
 
  • #16
I noticed in many threads that many things are compared to Adolf Hitler and the Gestapo etc.

comparing abortion with the holocaust

Perhaps, many individuals habitually compare unique 'things', such as actions, materials, circumstances, and individuals to discern the common and different traits of either one, and tout that which they think is either the common bond or point of difference-between unique 'things'-depending upon which one suits their argument

I believe that such a process was contrary to the basic scientific practice of isolating and scrutinizing, putting under the microscope, only that which is the subject of inquiry, so as to determine that which it is or was in and of itself, independent of that other 'thing'.

Comparative practices, as common as air, ultimately lead the investigation into the one 'thing' astray.

Blinder leading the blind.
 
  • #17
Pengwuino said:
The OP said the Vatican remained silent. Logic tells us that there is a very good reason why they MIGHT have remained silent, that is what i was talking about.

So you agree that the Vatican bases their opinions not solely on religion but more on political gain.
 
  • #18
Apart from the emotional load of this kind of discussion, perhaps it is still a mystery to be solved how a single lunatic managed to become the undisputed deity of an entire population. How can we prevent it from happening ever again? Not by applying taboo rules on the subject.
Hitler was nothing without his henchmen. They (the nazi party) saw a gap in the market (so to speak) and filled it with facism, using many of Mussolini tricks in propaganda they manipulated the populas (of which >40% were unemployed) into thinking the Arien way was the only way, and Hitler was a supprem being of sorts..

I don't think it is such a mystery how the Nazi's came to power, but I aggree we "Should never forget" so as to prevent it from happening again
 
  • #19
jaap de vries said:
The other day I saw anti-abortion protesters comparing abortion with the holocaust including graphical pictures of dead Jews piled up. Question, if abortion and the holocaust are so similar than why did the pope conveniently remained silent during WOII and is he screaming murder now about abortion?
Your observation is correct. Why are the right-wing conservatives so obsessed with abortion but unconcerned about the babies (or people in general) who are killed in war (i.e., Iraq) or genocide? In other words, be consistent if you're pro-life.
Andre said:
Apart from the emotional load of this kind of discussion, perhaps it is still a mystery to be solved how a single lunatic managed to become the undisputed deity of an entire population. How can we prevent it from happening ever again? Not by applying taboo rules on the subject.
The comparison is often over used or inappropriate, but I agree, we should always remember history and learn from it.

As Anttech said: …we "Should never forget" so as to prevent it from happening again

fourier jr said:
well right-wingers misuse words like communist, marxist, liberal, anarchist words all the time. when wil they stop assuming that, for example, Canada building a national power grid is something that kim kong il would do here? (someone said that on another forum)
True too, which gets back to censorship in general. If one starts limiting views, then where will the line be drawn?
 
  • #20
jaap de vries said:
So you agree that the Vatican bases their opinions not solely on religion but more on political gain.

I don't really think you understand the implications of having one of the largest armies ever sitting at your doorstep being headed by a leader who doesn't see anything wrong with killing millions of people because of their religion.
 
  • #21
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. What have we to learn from and compare to but real events?

I don't know how people are using this comparison here, but in some respects analogy and comparisons can by useful and insightful.
 
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  • #22
If someome wants to make a comparison to someone or some thing truly nasty and evil. Hitler and Nazi are the first things that come to mind.

I think it also happens because they are histroically recent and the most studied. We could compare a politician to Vlad the Impaler, but how many people are fimiliar with Bad old Vlad.

According to the link below a lot of people have been compared to Hitler. The problem with this is that it waters down just how truly evil Hitler and the Nazi's really were.


http://beautifulatrocities.com/archives/2005/06/in_the_future_e.html
 
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  • #23
I don't know how people are using this comparison here, but in some respects analogy and comparisons can by useful and insightful.
The general rule is that comparisons with Hitler and such are not useful and insightful. (You should read the literature on Godwin's law)

These comparisons are almost exclusively used as a synonym for "double plus evil"*. These comparisons do not attempt to extract any meaningful information out of the comparison; they merely wish to project feelings about the Nazis onto the topic at hand.

Furthermore, even if there is, on some topic a valid analogy to be extracted from Hitler's example, you are unlikely to be able to make the analogy without carrying over the extreme connotations associated with it. (in which the point will almost certainly be lost) Thus, even in this circumstance, it is advisable not to make such comparisons.


*: I find it ironic that newspeak has increased the expressiveness of English. :smile:
 
  • #24
What about comparing scientists to Einstein?

Everyone compares something with something, but it's always done improperly.

Yes, it does make you look stupid.
 
  • #25
jaap de vries said:
I noticed in many threads that many things are compared to Adolf Hitler and the Gestapo etc.
Why don't we just decide here that we will stop doing that ok, it makes people sound very uneducated.

The other day I saw anti-abortion protesters comparing abortion with the holocaust including graphical pictures of dead Jews piled up. Question, if abortion and the holocaust are so similar than why did the pope conveniently remained silent during WOII and is he screaming murder now about abortion?
Just an observation I made.

Jaap

You know... that comment is so Nazi like...

oh.. wait :-p
 
  • #26
I'm so dissapointed in you all. Especially you Pengwuino, I expected better.

If I'd been around when this thread was created I would've immediately jumped in with a "Godwin's Law! jaap de vries Loses!".

tsk tsk.
 
  • #27
Smurf said:
I'm so dissapointed in you all. Especially you Pengwuino, I expected better.

If I'd been around when this thread was created I would've immediately jumped in with a "Godwin's Law! jaap de vries Loses!".

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/
 
  • #28
Gah, here's a Godwin's law related situation I don't know how to handle!

person1 said:
What ever happened to the policy of diplomatic engagement?
person2 said:
The policy of appeasing such regimes ended in 1938.

Although the general rule is that you shouldn't reference Hitler et al, do we have a valid exception when the right answer1 to a question requires such a reference? Can anyone field this one?



1: Or at least what one thinks to be the right answer.
 
  • #29
Hurkyl said:
Gah, here's a Godwin's law related situation I don't know how to handle!


Although the general rule is that you shouldn't reference Hitler et al, do we have a valid exception when the right answer1 to a question requires such a reference? Can anyone field this one?


1: Or at least what one thinks to be the right answer.
The link appears to be diplomatic engagement = appeasement = rise of Nazis.

Exactly why diplomatic engagement is being equated to appeasement totally eludes me?? :confused:

Modern business management practices promote the win-win scenario rather than the old 'hah, I win you lose' approach to negotiations.

Most civilised countries today follow the modern win-win approach to settling differences through diplomatic engagement without any appeasement and so making a ridiculous leap from diplomatic engagement to appeasement apparently to justify dragging nazism into it to my mind does invoke Godwins law.
 
  • #30
I didn't bring this here to debate the correctness of person2's answer. :-p Presumably, person2 thought his answer was right -- the question is about how he should proceed. (Based on his thoughts, not yours :-p)
 

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