Polarization in Bohmian mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the explanation of polarization in the context of Bohmian mechanics, particularly how it relates to the behavior of polarizers and photons. Participants explore the implications of Bohmian mechanics for understanding quantum phenomena, including the measurement of polarization and the nature of photons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how Bohmian mechanics describes photons, suggesting uncertainty about its applicability to such quantum entities.
  • There is a suggestion that standard quantum field theory (QFT) adequately describes observations without the need for Bohmian mechanics.
  • One viewpoint emphasizes that Bohmian mechanics can provide a straightforward explanation for measurements of polarization from an instrumental perspective.
  • Concerns are raised about the limitations of Bohmian mechanics in explaining processes involving polarizers, particularly regarding the absorption and polarization of photons.
  • Participants discuss the role of dissipative equations in describing polarization processes, with some arguing that these equations lack a Bohmian equivalent.
  • Others propose that non-unitary dissipative equations may emerge from a more fundamental unitary description, suggesting a potential Bohmian interpretation at a deeper level.
  • References to literature are made, indicating that while quantum dissipative equations can be derived from unitary equations, the treatment in the Bohmian context remains less explored.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Bohmian mechanics to photons and polarization, with no consensus reached on how these concepts interrelate. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the adequacy of Bohmian mechanics in explaining the behavior of polarizers and the nature of quantum measurements.

Contextual Notes

There are references to specific equations and literature that may provide further insight, but the discussion highlights the complexity and potential limitations of applying Bohmian mechanics to certain quantum phenomena.

  • #31
Demystifier said:
The one linked in my signature below.
There is no "signature below'' - whether a signature is shown depends on user settings!
 
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  • #32
vanhees71 said:
The only question is what the Bohmian trajectories are good for? So why should you calculate them.
In "Bohmian mechanics for instrumentalists" I explain that there is no much point in explicit calculation of Bohmian trajectories, yet they are good for having an intuitive conceptual picture of QM. This is somewhat similar to effective field theories, where there is no much point in explicit calculations in the more fundamental theory, yet the idea that there is a more fundamental theory is good for having an intuitive conceptual picture of effective QFT.
 
  • #33
A. Neumaier said:
There is no "signature below'' - whether a signature is shown depends on user settings!
I didn't know that. But I think showing signature is the default.
 
  • #34
Demystifier said:
effective field theories, where there is no much point in explicit calculations in the more fundamental theory,
This is an incorrect view. One often calculates some things from the more fundamental theory (if it is known), to be matched by the coefficients in the effective theory.
 
  • #35
A. Neumaier said:
This is an incorrect view. One often calculates some things from the more fundamental theory (if it is known), to be matched by the coefficients in the effective theory.
Yes, but once you have the coefficients, which what "to have the effective theory" means, then you don't longer need the more fundamental theory.
 
  • #36
A. Neumaier said:
I didn't refer to QFT, so your interpretation of what I said is unfounded. The process described follows from QED, but is modeled in the analysis of actual quantum optics experiments in a coarse-grained fashion.
Of course. It's still not clear to me what you are after here.
 
  • #37
Demystifier said:
The one linked in my signature below.
Yes, I did. As you know, I've my quibbles with listing photons just along massive particles, and I'm not convinced that there's a consistent Bohmian reinterpretation of relativistic QFT.
 
  • #38
vanhees71 said:
Yes, I did. As you know, I've my quibbles with listing photons just along massive particles, and I'm not convinced that there's a consistent Bohmian reinterpretation of relativistic QFT.
If you did, then you know that particles of the Standard Model, including photons, do not have Bohmian trajectories in my version of BM. In this way, this version of BM is very similar to the minimal standard interpretation of relativistic QFT, which, I believe, you could find satisfying.
 
  • #39
Demystifier said:
I think showing signature is the default.

Even so, if you are going to reference a paper in a specific thread, it's a good idea to put the link directly in a post instead of relying on your sig.
 
  • #40
vanhees71 said:
I've strong doubts that there's a Bohmian interpretation for photons. Photons are the least particle-like quanta directly observable to us. A position observable makes only a much reduced sense. All we know are detection probabilities given the state of the em. field, where the position does not directly refer to a photon but only to the location of the detector used to register the photon having interacted with it at its position.
There is no need for a photon position, given that the much more natural approach ist Bohmian field theory. A standard reference for this is
Bohm.D., Hiley, B.J., Kaloyerou, P.N. (1987). An ontological basis for the quantum theory, Phys. Reports 144(6), 321-375
 
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