Poll: For physics and math, Notebook vs Loose leaf papers

[user079622]

At university for physics and math, do you use notebook or loose leaf papers(binder,pocket etc)?
For Physics I mean any branches of physics(engineering, classical, quantum, etc...)
Explanation?
pros & cons?

 

[pines-demon]

At university, do you use notebook or loose leaf papers?
Explanation?
pros & cons?

Both?

 

[user079622]

Both?

Yes, you can elaborate...

 

[berkeman]

do you use notebook or loose leaf papers?

What does this count as?

https://www.amazon.com/NIB-NISH-9483991-LOOSELEAF-BINDER/dp/B002JESV24?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[fresh_42]

What does this count as?

View attachment 355484

https://www.amazon.com/NIB-NISH-9483991-LOOSELEAF-BINDER/dp/B002JESV24?tag=pfamazon01-20

Expensive.

 

[pines-demon]

Yes, you can elaborate...

I always used a mixture of both. Single notebooks are better to keep things tight in one place but I have always found that notebooks are single topic (I cannot mix EM and mechanics for example). However I found myself not always filling the notebooks and having too many is too much weight. A looseleaf binder is quite practical because you can remove or add paper sheets at will which is very practical if you do a lot of drafts versions of calculations and you do not want to carry everything with you. I somehow found myself using a mixture of both. I reserved notebooks for main courses which I knew that were worth it (but most of the time I did not know if it was the case beforehand).

 

[user079622]

What does this count as?

View attachment 355484

https://www.amazon.com/NIB-NISH-9483991-LOOSELEAF-BINDER/dp/B002JESV24?tag=pfamazon01-20

This count as loose leaf paper, storage type is irrelevant in poll.
Why binder and do you write only on right side or you take out one sheet of paper when writing?

 

[user079622]

I always used a mixture of both. Single notebooks are better to keep things tight in one place but I have always found that notebooks are single topic (I cannot mix EM and mechanics for example). However I found myself not always filling the notebooks and having too many is too much weight. A looseleaf binder is quite practical because you can remove or add paper sheets at will which is very practical if you do a lot of drafts versions of calculations. I somehow found myself using a mixture of both. I reserved notebooks for main courses which I knew that were worth it (but most of the time I did not know if it was the case beforehand).

Do you put out sheet of paper or write directly in binder?
Not have problems with missing the sheets?

Some people say ; why even take notes if we have books, so they only practice and do homework in notebook or sheets of papers(binder)..

 

[berkeman]

Do you put out sheet of paper or write directly in binder?
Not have problems with missing the sheets?

I took the notes on paper pads (with pre-punched holes) and then tore them off, stapled them when the notes from the class took several pages, and put them in the binder. The pads were either Engineering Pads or simple Lined Pads, depending on how many figures were part of the lectures (so mostly Engineering Pads).

https://gatech.bncollege.com/School...cialty/ENGINEERING-COMP-PAD-GREEN-TINT/p/7905

 

[user079622]

@berkeman

Reason why you dont use notebook, lack of organization?

 

[pines-demon]

Do you put out sheet of paper or write directly in binder?

Usually aside, but if the binder allows it you can write on it.

Not have problems with missing the sheets?

That can be an issue, yes.

Some people say ; why even take notes if we have books, so they only practice and do homework in notebook or sheets of papers(binder)..

We can give you anecdotal evidence but you have to check what works on you. You can try different methods and see which one you prefer. Each method requires a different kind of organization.

I myself find that I can only learn by taking notes, so that's what I do. But different people find different techniques. Some people retain information better by listening attentively, some just retain what is written on the board, some take notes.

 

[berkeman]

Reason why you dont use notebook, lack of organization?

By notebook, do you mean like a lab notebook? I've used lab notebooks in my work (not in school), where I needed a legal record of my work for patent reasons. To document the work leading up to a patent, you need to have a notebook where pages can't be removed or added (hence the page numbers in the notebook), and important entries need to be witnessed and signed by co-workers who understand the work. It's a bit of a pain keeping a Table of Contents in such notebooks, since you have to reserve the first few pages for it and keep going back to add new entries into the ToC to keep track of where things are.

For school there are generally no such requirements, and the flexibility of being able to add and subtract pages, etc., was a big help. I could also keep my "crib sheet" for each class at the start of each binder section, and when I redid the crib sheet (which typically happened several times per semester, especially near the end of the semester when I was studying for finals), it was easy to substitute it into the binder.

I would typically have one binder per semester, with a binder section for each class in it.

 

[xTheFormlessOnedx]

A high quality mechanical pencil on printer paper. That's just how I rolled. Looks way more beautiful. I did assignments on printer paper. I took notes in class in a notebook, and then transferred them onto
printer paper. Every time I get done with a slide, problem, or topic. I would draw a horizontal line across the page. I got addicted to the sound it would make. And it would symbolize permanent retention in my brain.

 

[fresh_42]

At university for physics and math, do you use notebook or loose leaf papers?

A blackboard.

This question depends a lot on which type of learner you are. I cannot remember things very well if I haven't written them down in some way, manually. Ok, when I studied there haven't been notebooks so I never had to answer this question. Nowadays, I use both, depending on speed and comfort. Particularly since TeX editors in combination with AHK enable me to be comparably fast.

However, if my goal is to learn something and keep it in mind, I still prefer handwriting over electronic content. I even do really like blackboards and I constructed a small one at home so that I can use one. The term looseleaf creates a bias toward notebooks in your question so your poll will be biased, too, and of little value. Nobody uses loose leaves. They use ring binders or booklets. And other than @berkeman's example above, I found them ranging between € 0.29 and € 3.17 (for documents). I think the basic difference is whether you can learn by just viewing things - not me - or you need to work it out. That's also the reason I do not like videos very much. They are nice to watch, you think you got the clue, and they are as quickly forgotten as they were started.

And last but not least: I have never heard of a looseleaf crash!

 

[user079622]

By notebook, do you mean like a lab notebook?

I mean on classic lined, grid or blank pages notebook.

A high quality mechanical pencil on printer paper. That's just how I rolled. Looks way more beautiful. I did assignments on printer paper. I took notes in class in a notebook, and then transferred them onto
printer paper. Every time I get done with a slide, problem, or topic. I would draw a horizontal line across the page. I got addicted to the sound it would make. And it would symbolize permanent retention in my brain.

But that is double job.
If you want to be beautiful you can use this romantic notebook.

A blackboard.

This question depends a lot on which type of learner you are. I cannot remember things very well if I haven't written them down in some way, manually. Ok, when I studied there haven't been notebooks so I never had to answer this question.

How old are you?

 

[fresh_42]

I mean on classic lined, grid or blank pages notebook.

But that is double job.
If you want to be beautiful you can use this romantic notebook.
View attachment 355486



How old are you?

Old enough to have experienced more than one hardware crash.

 

[xTheFormlessOnedx]

I mean on classic lined, grid or blank pages notebook.

But that is double job.
If you want to be beautiful you can use this romantic notebook.
View attachment 355486



How old are you?

I was extremely particular. Those pages are brown. I need white. Pencil on white printer paper gives a stronger contrast. And. I really really need to have that horizontal line and the sound it makes. I feel these pages would tear. lol. And double work having to transfer it over? Nope. That is part of the study process. Copying it over does help with memory retention. I am primarily a visual learner. I can read the text book. Look at the slides. Just look with my eyes. All I really need. Recopying makes it look nicer for my visual learning. And it does engage the brain a little differently. Fascilitating commitment to memory.

 

[pines-demon]

How old are you?

Rude question to ask here, some of us remember the days of cuneiform carving.

 

[fresh_42]

Rude question to ask here, some of us remember the days of cuneiform carving.

We were so poor, we even hadn't a zero!

 

[hutchphd]

To document the work leading up to a patent, you need to have a notebook where pages can't be removed or added (hence the page numbers in the notebook), and important entries need to be witnessed and signed by co-workers who understand the work

Is this still true? I haven't filed a patent since first-to-file became the law (America Invents Act 2013). I understood that this obviates much of that documentation,. but accentuates the need to file quickly.

 

[berkeman]

Is this still true? I haven't filed a patent since first-to-file became the law (America Invents Act 2013). I understood that this obviates much of that documentation,. but accentuates the need to file quickly.

That's a good question. The last patent that I filed through work was granted in 2011 (7,969,270 “Communication Transformer”), so things could well be different now.

 

[user079622]

@xTheFormlessOnedx

You didn't write how you store A4 papers?
Binder, pocket?

 

[user079622]

Do you find easier to write on one sheet of paper then in notebook, because paper don't have thick edge that rubs against arm or you consider this irrelevant?

Nobody uses loose leaves.

I mean on binders, pockets etc
Yes, nobody use sheets without storing them somewhere

 

[fresh_42]

Do you find easier to write on one sheet of paper then in notebook?

I have a TeX editor, AHK with an appropriate script installed, and I use it a lot for quick calculations, preparing answers for the internet for its better preview function, as well as for my insight articles. I also use MSPaint and some mathematical graphing programs for occasional graphics.
I use the resulting pdf for searches in a browser, e.g. in my solution manual
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/solution-manuals-for-the-math-challenges.977057/
if I want to find specific content.

I also have textbooks to look up things.

I have a classical Pelican pencil as well as a cheap $1 pencil with ink in reach, paper, and booklets for quick, short calculations, sketches, or combinatorial calculations like lists, enumerations, and similar.

In case I want to produce sustainable notes, I prefer @xTheFormlessOnedx 's method: pencil and printer paper in booklets or binders.

I have a small blackboard and chalk for brainstorming, and calculations I know I would wipe out parts a lot, or if I want - literally - a distant look at something.

Now tell me, what do you expect me to choose from your two possibilities? We live in times of opportunity. There is no need for either-or. Use both! Here is a post that summarizes that:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/how-to-use-the-w-in-www.1062388/

 

[user079622]

I have a classical Pelican pencil as well as a cheap $1 pencil with ink in reach, paper, and booklets for quick, short calculations, sketches, or combinatorial calculations like lists, enumerations, and similar.

What is booklet, a few A3 folded on half?

In case I want to produce sustainable notes, I prefer @xTheFormlessOnedx 's method: pencil and printer paper in booklets or binders.

Any reason why you dont use notebook?

Now tell me, what do you expect me to choose from your two possibilities?

No way, because I cant edit poll any more

 

[fresh_42]

What is booklet, a few A3 folded on half?

I admit, I had trouble finding the correct English word for it. I mean things like these:

Any reason why you dont use notebook?

I use everything, a notebook, too. The machine as well as the paper version. With a TeX editor and especially with AHK I can type the complicated TeX commands pretty fast. I do not use handwriting on a notebook, I would never again look at them and my handwriting isn't very nice. If it had to be a machine I can as well write it nicely with a program.

And of course, there is always the human factor:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...at-numbers-and-corollary.992565/#post-6381538

 

[user079622]

@fresh_42

I used notebook and everybody around me, in all my school years I never ever see that someone use binder.

 

[user079622]

Physicists use loose leaf because Newton did?

https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/newton/1

 

[pines-demon]

Physicists use loose leaf because Newton did?

https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/newton/1

It is not the same thing to use binder/notebooks as a student than as a researcher. As a researcher you have manuscripts and drafts of your to-be-published work.

 

[user079622]

It is not the same thing to use binder/notebooks as a student than as a researcher. As a researcher you have manuscripts and drafts of your to-be-published work.

Does anybody knows why Newton wrote on single folded sheet instead on quires? (that mean every sheet must be sewed in Principia manuscript)
"The double foolscap sheets were not made up by the Writer in gatherings or quires but used singly.."

Preference or easier organization?
I think manuscript, codex or any book is sewed with few folded sheets(quires)

https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ROYALSOCIETY-00069/5

 

[fresh_42]

Does anybody knows why Newton wrote on single folded sheet instead on quires?

You cannot ignore 350 years of global, technical development and compare now and then.

 

[user079622]

You cannot ignore 350 years of global, technical development and compare now and then.

Yes I agree but codex, manuscripts was sewed with few sheets together(quiers/gatherings) centuries before Newton, because you have less sewing and pages is harder to loose.

 

[user079622]

I was extremely particular. Those pages are brown. I need white. Pencil on white printer paper gives a stronger contrast. And. I really really need to have that horizontal line and the sound it makes. I feel these pages would tear. lol. And double work having to transfer it over? Nope. That is part of the study process. Copying it over does help with memory retention. I am primarily a visual learner. I can read the text book. Look at the slides. Just look with my eyes. All I really need. Recopying makes it look nicer for my visual learning. And it does engage the brain a little differently. Fascilitating commitment to memory.

Where do you storage printer papers?

 

[robphy]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned what used to be called
TabletPCs ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC ; nowadays: laptops with a stylus).

Here's an old post of mine from 2013 ( Latex vs Writing Math: Can I Achieve Fluency? ) and
from 2006 [reposted in 2014] ( https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...science-teaching-blog-entry-from-2006.767963/ ).

I have been using Windows Journal since 2003. I try to put dates and keywords in my filenames, then organize them into folders. I probably should update to, say, OneNote.

Some of my students use OneNote on their laptops-with-stylus or something similar on their iPads.

 

[user079622]

@fresh_42
What do you think, for print papers?

 

[xTheFormlessOnedx]

@xTheFormlessOnedx

You didn't write how you store A4 papers?
Binder, pocket?

A folder. That I stored in my binder I believe.

 

[xTheFormlessOnedx]

Do you find easier to write on one sheet of paper then in notebook, because paper don't have thick edge that rubs against arm or you consider this irrelevant?


I mean on binders, pockets etc
Yes, nobody use sheets without storing them somewhere

Dude. One sheet of paper on a hard surface! The writing, structures, and math looks Mint!!!!!! with a notebook, you dont get that 1 sheet of paper on a hard surface feel, due to all the other pages within the notebook!. Thats actually a point about the edges'/rings rubbing against the arms. it does kind of get in the way if you are being super analytical. Like i am sometimes.

 

[xTheFormlessOnedx]

What is booklet, a few A3 folded on half?


Any reason why you dont use notebook?

No way, because I cant edit poll any more

see posts 13 and 17. and then also. 1 sheet on a hard surface!

 

[user079622]

Dude. One sheet of paper on a hard surface! The writing, structures, and math looks Mint!!!!!! with a notebook, you dont get that 1 sheet of paper on a hard surface feel, due to all the other pages within the notebook!. Thats actually a point about the edges'/rings rubbing against the arms. it does kind of get in the way if you are being super analytical. Like i am sometimes.

Is your decision to write like that just for the sake of functionality or is there a bit of romance in physics because that's how other physicists wrote, Newton, Einstein... ?

All paper from manuscripts was written first on sheets of paper, never directly in already blank bounded manuscript/codex.
Yes for scribes was easier to wrote at on sheet of paper then in book, plus you can organized papers as you wish, but why then 90% of students use notebook?

 

[BillTre]

The main differences are bound notebooks are more secure. They are required fr some jobs. Pages are less likely to be lost and from a business and legal point of view, page removal is kind of obvious.
The loose leaf notebooks (based on three hole punched papers in a notebook) are way more flexible. It was the basis of my record keeping for experiments. I liked this and it seemed unlikely I would have to worry about protecting my intellectual property and worry about the associated legal stuff.

Either way (bound or unbound) additions to the pages could be made. I knew people who would dried/stained gels in their notebooks. I preferred stapling, but there is also glue and tape.
As I understand it now, these thins are a lot more digital. This would seem to have many advantages.
It would however, lack the sensual feeling of writing on pager.
They'll make an app for that.

I hated the notebooks that were supposed to make a carbon copy (yellow paper I think) of the page you were writing on. You could then tear out the copy and do something with it. It was messy because of the carbon paper and it didn't work well for me. It was probably in chemistry classes where they were training chemists for jobs in industry. This would all be digital now I would think.

 

[user079622]

The main differences are bound notebooks are more secure. They are required fr some jobs. Pages are less likely to be lost and from a business and legal point of view, page removal is kind of obvious.
The loose leaf notebooks (based on three hole punched papers in a notebook) are way more flexible. It was the basis of my record keeping for experiments. I liked this and it seemed unlikely I would have to worry about protecting my intellectual property and worry about the associated legal stuff.

Either way (bound or unbound) additions to the pages could be made. I knew people who would dried/stained gels in their notebooks. I preferred stapling, but there is also glue and tape.
As I understand it now, these thins are a lot more digital. This would seem to have many advantages.
It would however, lack the sensual feeling of writing on pager.
They'll make an app for that.

I hated the notebooks that were supposed to make a carbon copy (yellow paper I think) of the page you were writing on. You could then tear out the copy and do something with it. It was messy because of the carbon paper and it didn't work well for me. It was probably in chemistry classes where they were training chemists for jobs in industry. This would all be digital now I would think.

Notebook has two problems:
1. no organisation
2. edge-arm problem(when you write a lot, it is easier to write on sheet of paper)

But still almost everyone at university class use notebook not binder...(if I dont count digital tools)

 

[BillTre]

Notebook has two problems:
1. no organisation
2. edge-arm problem(when you write a lot, it is easier to write on sheet of paper)

But still almost everyone at university class use notebook not binder...(if I dont count digital tools)

"1. no organisation":
You can insert or glue in tabs or special pages.
For me, I would often have the holes tear out. Therefore hole reinforcer stick on circles. Or tape hole punched. Or stick it on another page (messy). Kind of a hassle.

"2. edge-arm problem(when you write a lot, it is easier to write on sheet of paper)"
I would write in a stack of papers, often on a clipboard (which I still use). The paper is then put into a notebook.
i guess this kind of avoids the problem. I think someone else had also mentioned this.

 

[user079622]

I would write in a stack of papers, often on a clipboard (which I still use). The paper is then put into a notebook.
i guess this kind of avoids the problem. I think someone else had also mentioned this.

But then you are not use "notebook", you use sheet of papers.
Classic notebook=fixed number of papers(thickness)

Refilible "notebook" I put in binder camp.

 

[BillTre]

But then you are not use "notebook", you use sheet of papers.
Classic notebook=fixed number of papers(thickness)

Sheets of papers kept in notebooks. You could write in the notebook, but that's not always necessary and easier on a clip board or pad of papers.
This is how lab note books used to be done by a lot of biologists at universities. I don't know the standard practices now. I would guess that things are more regulated and standardized now.

 

[user079622]

Sheets of papers kept in notebooks. You could write in the notebook, but that's not always necessary and easier on a clip board or pad of papers.

How this loose leaf of papers stay in notebook, notebook has binder system or spiral?

 

[BillTre]

It is usually works like this:

You can make the claw things close into ringers or open for making changes.

 

[user079622]

It is usually works like this:
View attachment 355614
You can make the claw things close into ringers or open for making changes.

I consider this as binder category.

 

[user079622]

https://www.uah.edu/images/administ...outs/handouts_2019/note-taking_strategies.pdf

Quote from text:

"Tips for Taking Notes:
 Use a binder of loose-leaf paper rather than a spiral-bound notebook.
Using loose-leaf paper will allow you to rearrange your notes and replace them whenthey are rewritten or reorganized. Using a binder will allow you to keep your classhandouts and print-offs together with your notes and to have a well-organizednotebook. You can also use tabs so that you have all of your classes in one notebookand are never without something to study.
 Take notes on only one side of the paper.
Using only one side of the paper allows you to spread out your notes and see themall at once.
 Date, number, and title your notes.
This will help you find information more quickly later when you need it. Use your title tosummarize the main topic of the lecture.
 Focus on facts, ideas, and specific examples rather than writing every word.o Ideas are especially important in literature, philosophy, and history classes, so be sureto record more than just facts."

 

[BillTre]

I consider this as binder category.

"Tips for Taking Notes:
 Use a binder of loose-leaf paper rather than a spiral-bound notebook.

Thought you didn't like the binder category.

 

[vela]

Back in my day, I preferred loose-leaf over spiral-bound notebooks for the reason given in the first tip. I also really didn't like the frayed left edge when a sheet was torn out (and still don't). I used engineering paper when I majored in EE, and notepads with regular lined paper and plain white paper later on. This was mainly for homework since I stopped taking notes in the middle of my freshman year.

These days, it seems most of my students prefer spiral-bound notebooks, but there are a growing number who take notes and do homework on tablets.