Potential Energy Problem: Pulling a Chain up onto a Table

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ascendant0
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Mass
AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on understanding the formula for calculating the mass of a segment of a chain, specifically why the total mass "m" is divided by the total length "L." The confusion arises from the implication that a smaller "L" would lead to an infinite mass for an infinitesimally small segment. However, it is clarified that the mass of a segment does not depend on the total length of the chain; if "L" is halved, both "m" and the ratio remain consistent. The formula indicates that the mass of a segment is proportional to its length relative to the total length, ensuring that the mass remains finite. The participant expresses gratitude for the clarification and plans to revisit the problem with a better understanding.
Ascendant0
Messages
175
Reaction score
38
Homework Statement
A chain is held on a frictionless table with one fourth of its length hanging over the edge. If the chain has length L = 0.28 m and mass m = 0.012 kg, how much work is required to pull
the hanging part back onto the table?
Relevant Equations
Potential energy dU
So, the first thing that came to mind when I was trying to figure out how to set this up is that it will be a dU problem. After trying to figure out how to set it up to no avail, I took a look at how they solved it in the solutions manual. It's making absolutely no sense to me...

They state "note that the mass of a segment is (m/L) dy". I'm completely lost on that part, as to why "L" is in the denominator? Wouldn't that setup mean that the smaller "L" is, the larger the mass, to the point where it becomes infinite if it is infinitesimally small??? I'm not seeing the sense behind how they've set it up, as from what I'm thinking, they're basically stating the shorter the length, the larger the mass. Can someone help me to view this correctly so I can understand why it is set up the way it is?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It shows the dependence between the mass and the length, which can be expressed as kg/m, for example.
Since length L = 0.28 m and mass m = 0.012 kg, we can say that this chain has a linear mass of 0.012/0.28 = 0.0428 kg/m.
 
  • Like
Likes scottdave and Ascendant0
Ascendant0 said:
They state "note that the mass of a segment is (m/L) dy". I'm completely lost on that part, as to why "L" is in the denominator?
The total length of the chain is ##L## and the total mass is ##m##. If ##\Delta y## is the length of a segment of the chain, the mass of this segment is a fraction of the total mass ##m##. For example, suppose ##\dfrac {\Delta y} L## is ##\dfrac1 {10}## so that ##\Delta y## is one-tenth of ##L##. In this case, the mass of the segment ##\Delta y## will be ##\dfrac1 {10}## of the total mass ##m##. That is, $$(\text{mass of segment of length } \Delta y) = \frac {\Delta y} L \cdot m$$ This can be rewritten as $$(\text{mass of segment of length } \Delta y) = \frac m L \cdot \Delta y$$

Ascendant0 said:
Wouldn't that setup mean that the smaller "L" is, the larger the mass, to the point where it becomes infinite if it is infinitesimally small???

For a given type of chain, the mass of a segment of length ##\Delta y## does not depend on the total length ##L## of the chain. If ##L## were cut in half, the total mass ##m## would also be reduced by one-half. But the ratio ##\dfrac m L## would not change. So, according to the formula above, the mass of a segment ##\Delta y## is not changed when ##L## is changed.
 
  • Like
Likes Lnewqban and Ascendant0
Thanks to both of you. I get it now. It's a little late for me to get back to the problem, but I'm going to revisit it tomorrow and make sure it all makes sense now. I believe it should. I appreciate the help, thank you
 
  • Like
Likes TSny and Lnewqban
Thread 'Collision of a bullet on a rod-string system: query'
In this question, I have a question. I am NOT trying to solve it, but it is just a conceptual question. Consider the point on the rod, which connects the string and the rod. My question: just before and after the collision, is ANGULAR momentum CONSERVED about this point? Lets call the point which connects the string and rod as P. Why am I asking this? : it is clear from the scenario that the point of concern, which connects the string and the rod, moves in a circular path due to the string...
Back
Top