Power, force, velocity and tension...

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of power, force, velocity, and tension in a physics context, particularly focusing on the relationship between these variables in a scenario involving motion along a slope. Participants are exploring the implications of using different forces in calculations related to power and speed.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of speed using the formula for power and question whether to use tension or weight in their calculations. There are inquiries about the meaning of force in the context of constant speed and how it relates to the forces acting on the object.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the conceptual underpinnings of the problem. Some have offered clarifications regarding the use of tension force in calculations, while others are seeking further explanation of the relationships between the forces involved.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing exploration of Newton's second law and its application to the scenario, with some participants expressing confusion about the assumptions being made regarding forces and their directions. The discussion reflects a mix of understanding and uncertainty regarding the application of concepts in this context.

  • #31
haruspex said:
The tension force exists because the motor is pulling with force F. We can look at it from the point of view of the wire or of the motor.
The motor, presumably, is winding the wire onto a spool. The force it exerts is ##\vec F##, positive in the downslope direction. The velocity with which this is winding wire onto the spool is ##\vec v##, also positive in the downslope direction. The power is ##\vec F\cdot \vec v##, also positive.
From the wire's perspective, the force is positive upslope, but stationary, so the wire is not producing any power.
this is very difficult to understand
im sorry but can you please explain again in more simpler words... 😬
 
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  • #32
hello478 said:
this is very difficult to understand
im sorry but can you please explain again in more simpler words... 😬
Picture what is going on inside the block. There is a drum turning, hauling in the wire. It exerts a force F on the wire, causing it to be drawn onto the drum with speed v. Both F and v act down the slope. The power required to do that is Fv.
 
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  • #33
1711537494273.png

hello478 said:
in more simpler words...

##\ ##
 
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  • #34
thank you!
 
  • #35
haruspex said:
Picture what is going on inside the block. There is a drum turning, hauling in the wire. It exerts a force F on the wire, causing it to be drawn onto the drum with speed v. Both F and v act down the slope. The power required to do that is Fv.
so which force am i supposed to use to calculate the velocity?
 
  • #36
MatinSAR said:
We don't care about whaat causes the motion.

You want to find speed of the object using ##P=\vec F. \vec v## and you have power of the Tension force so that F in above equation represents tension force.
why dont we care about it? how are we supposed to find the velocity then?
 
  • #37
hello478 said:
so which force am i supposed to use to calculate the velocity?
The ##F## in ##P = \vec F \cdot \vec v## is the one that does the work. The motor does the work and the only way it is exerting a force is in the form of tension in the cable. The ##T## you calculated in a .

hello478 said:
why dont we care about it? how are we supposed to find the velocity then?
We don't care about what causes the motion: we are given that the speed is constant (##\Rightarrow F_{net}=0##) and we know the opposing force component along the slope (##-mg\sin\theta## -- the minus sign is because its direction is to the left. g = 9.8 m/s2). So we know ##F## in #33 (aka The ##T## you calculated in a ).

(as you can see I also didn't bother to draw more than just ##F## in #33)

##\ ##
 
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  • #38
hello478 said:
why dont we care about it? how are we supposed to find the velocity then?
Earlier you've said :
yes, so then i would use the tension force and multiply with velocity, because it is the force causing upward motion? is this explanation correct?
And I disagree. You should use the force that is related to the motor power. It doesn't necessary for the force to cause upward/downward motion.

My interpretation of the question is apparently different from @haruspex . I can't understand why in his opinion the force is in the downslope direction. I think it is better for you to use the ideas of @BvU and @haruspex . I prefer not to contribute anymore. This way you don't get misled by different ideas.
 
  • #39
ok i sort of get it now... thank you very much!
 

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