Principal ideals of rings without unity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of principal ideals in rings that do not have a unity. Participants explore the implications of this absence on the definitions and characteristics of ideals, particularly focusing on principal left and two-sided ideals. The conversation also touches on the concept of maximal ideals and their relationship to comaximal ideals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the definition of principal left ideals differs based on the presence of a unity in the ring, questioning why an extra term appears in the definition without unity.
  • Another participant suggests that the inclusion of the term involving integers ensures that the generator of the ideal is included in the set, which is not guaranteed without a unity.
  • A further elaboration is made regarding principal two-sided ideals, emphasizing that without unity, certain elements cannot be guaranteed to exist in the ideal.
  • One participant raises a question about the definition of comaximal ideals, seeking clarification on the implications of the condition X+A=R and its relation to maximal ideals.
  • Another participant provides an example from the integers, illustrating how ideals can be comaximal, while also noting the existence of multiple ideals that can satisfy this condition.
  • A later reply acknowledges a previous deduction related to comaximal ideals but questions the implications when the ring lacks unity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the definitions and properties of ideals in rings without unity. There is no consensus on the implications of these properties, particularly concerning comaximal ideals and their relationship to maximal ideals.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of definitions in the absence of unity, particularly regarding the existence of certain elements in ideals. There are unresolved questions about the nature of comaximal ideals and their implications in rings without unity.

Wingeer
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Both my book and lecturer have in the definition a ring omitted the requirement of a unity.
I was reading in my book about ideals, more specifically principal ideals. I stumbled over a formula that differed by whether or not the ring had a unity. As an example I state the two for principal left ideals for a ring R:
(a)_l = \{ar+na | r \in R, n \in \mathbf{Z} \}
(a)_l = \{ar | r \in R,\}
Why is the extra term omitted if the ring does not have a unity? I bet the explanation is easy answer, but despite how hard I am looking at it, I cannot figure it out.
I also looked at an example. I took 2Z which has no unity and looked at 4Z which is a principal left (or right) ideal generated by 4. The formula then dictates that:
(4)_l = \{ 4r + 4n | r \in 2 \mathbf{Z}, n \in \mathbf{Z} \}
But then why not just say that:
(4)_l = \{ 4n | n \in \mathbf{Z} \} = 4 \mathbf{Z}

Am I doing something horrendously wrong here?
 
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I'm not used to working with rings without a unity. But I think I have the answer.

They key is that you of course want that a\in (a). But if we set

\{ar~\vert~r\in R\}

then there is nothing which forces a to be in that set. In a ring with unity, we could simply set r=1 and it follows immediately that a is in the set. But without unity, we simply do not know.

That's why we set

\{ar+na~\vert~r\in R,n\in \mathbb{Z}\}

taking r=0 and n=1 gives us that a is in the set. So in this case we do have a\in (a). But of course, if we have a in there, then we also need to have a+a=2a in there. So that's what the n is for.
 
Aha! That makes perfect sense.
I guess the same explanation goes for the principal two sided ideal:
(a) = \{ \sum_{i} r_i a s_i + ra + as + na | r,s,r_i,s_i \in R, n \in \mathbf{Z} /}
Where the sum is finite. If R had a unity, then first off we could set r_i and s_i = 1 which would imply that a is in the ideal. Moreover, without a unity we can't guarantee that either ra or as exists since we can't set any r_i or s_i equal to 1. But they have to exist by the definition of a principal two sided ideal.
If R has a unity, then we would have:
(a) = \{ \sum_{i} r_i a s_i | r_i,s_i \in R /}
 
Last edited:
Another question somewhat related:
I just read in my book that "An ideal A in a ring R is maximal if and only if the pair X,A, for all ideals X not a subset of A, is comaximal".
What does it mean for two ideals to be comaximal? That X+A=R. Is this just taking every element in X, and every element in A and putting them together in one bigger rng? How can there exist several ideals X that satisfy this? Does this also mean that if a ring R has a maximal ideal A then you have a family of ideals that "spans" the whole ring?
And yeah, R does not necessarily have a unity.
 
Wingeer said:
Another question somewhat related:
I just read in my book that "An ideal A in a ring R is maximal if and only if the pair X,A, for all ideals X not a subset of A, is comaximal".
What does it mean for two ideals to be comaximal? That X+A=R. Is this just taking every element in X, and every element in A and putting them together in one bigger rng? How can there exist several ideals X that satisfy this? Does this also mean that if a ring R has a maximal ideal A then you have a family of ideals that "spans" the whole ring?
And yeah, R does not necessarily have a unity.

I think you need an example. In the ring \mathbb{Z}. If a and b satisfy gcd(a,b)=1, then a\mathbb{Z} and b\mathbb{Z} are comaximal.

So for example, 4\mathbb{Z} is comaximal with 15\mathbb{Z} and 3247\mathbb{Z}. So you can see that there are multiple ideal with which an ideal can be comaximal with.

Note that the maximal ideals of \mathbb{Z} are exactly of the form p\mathbb{Z} with p prime.
 
I actually deduced that result earlier today. Should have thought of it when regarding multiple ideals comaximal to another one. Thanks. :-)
What, however, if the ring has no unity?
 

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