Principal nth Root of a Real Number

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the existence and uniqueness of the principal nth root of real numbers, particularly focusing on the conditions under which these roots exist for both odd and even values of n. Participants explore theoretical underpinnings, mathematical properties, and implications related to real analysis and continuity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references Wikipedia's assertion that if n is odd, every real number A has a unique real nth root with the same sign as A, and questions the basis for this claim.
  • Another participant presents a mathematical discovery regarding the nth root of negative real numbers, suggesting that for odd n, the nth root exists and is equal to -√[n]{A} where A = |y|.
  • Some participants propose using the infimum and supremum axioms along with the squeeze theorem to demonstrate the existence of positive real nth roots.
  • There is a mention of the function x^n being a continuous bijection on appropriate domains and codomains, which may relate to the uniqueness of roots.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the axioms and their relevance, indicating a lack of formal training in number theory.
  • Another participant connects the discussion to a specific problem regarding the function f(x) = x^3 + 1, questioning its bijection properties and suggesting the use of the intermediate value theorem for proof.
  • There is a suggestion that the existence of the inverse function could be argued based on the one-to-one and onto nature of the function x^n.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the axioms and theorems involved, with some agreeing on the continuity and bijection properties of certain functions, while others remain uncertain about the foundational concepts. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the best approach to proving the existence of the principal nth root.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate limitations in their understanding of the axioms necessary for the existence of real numbers, and there are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the proofs of bijection and continuity.

cepheid
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According to Wikipedia, if n is odd, then every real number A has a unique real nth root having the same sign as A and known as the principal nth root of A. It is denoted by

[tex]\sqrt[n]{A}[/tex]

My question is, how do we know that this is true i.e. that [itex]\sqrt[n]{A}[/itex] exists for all real numbers if n is odd, and for all positive real numbers if n is even?

Note: I have studied Complex Analysis. I am not interested in the other n-1 complex roots of the number.
 
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I had a discovery:

Let y be a negative real number:

[tex]y = A e^{i(\pi + 2k\pi)}, \ \ \ \ \ k \in \mathbb{Z}[/tex]

Then

[tex]y^{1/n} = \sqrt[n]{A} e^{i(\pi/n + 2k\pi/n)}, \ \ \ \ \ k \in \{0,...,n-1\}[/tex]

We can prove that one of the roots must be real by equating the argument to pi so that we just get a negative real number. Solving for k, we get:

k = (n-1)/2

which is an integer in the allowable range of k values IF n is odd.

Conclusion: [itex]\sqrt[n]{y}[/itex] exists and is equal to -[itex]\sqrt[n]{A}[/itex] where A = |y| (provided n is odd)

So my question reduces to, "how do we know that every POSITIVE real number has a unique, real nth root?"
 
How about using the infimum axiom the superimum axiom and the squeeze theorem.
 
x^n is a continuous bijection on the appropriate domain and codomain.
 
John Creighto said:
How about using the infimum axiom the superimum axiom and the squeeze theorem.

I'm not familiar with those axioms. I haven't been taught any number theory formally (if that is indeed what this is), so maybe I won't be able to understand the answer to this question.
 
morphism said:
x^n is a continuous bijection on the appropriate domain and codomain.

Haha...ironically, I have a problem asking me to determine whether f(x) = x^3 + 1 is a bijection, given a domain of R and a codomain of R, and THAT problem is what raised this question in my mind in the first place! I have no doubt that if the claim I was asking about is true, then it follows that what you have said is true, and vice versa. I just have no idea how to go about proving either statement.
 
cepheid said:
I'm not familiar with those axioms. I haven't been taught any number theory formally (if that is indeed what this is), so maybe I won't be able to understand the answer to this question.
This real analysis; in fact, all you need is calc I. You said you took complex analysis -- well, you could use that too, can't you?
 
Last edited:
cepheid said:
I'm not familiar with those axioms. I haven't been taught any number theory formally (if that is indeed what this is), so maybe I won't be able to understand the answer to this question.

The axioms are necessary for the existence of the real numbers.
 
cepheid said:
Haha...ironically, I have a problem asking me to determine whether f(x) = x^3 + 1 is a bijection, given a domain of R and a codomain of R, and THAT problem is what raised this question in my mind in the first place! I have no doubt that if the claim I was asking about is true, then it follows that what you have said is true, and vice versa. I just have no idea how to go about proving either statement.
A sketch of the graph of f(x) indicates that it's increasing. Can you think of how we can prove this formally? This should give us that f(x) is 1-1. To prove that f(x) is onto, we can use the intermediate value theorem.
 
  • #10
Hurkyl said:
This real analysis; in fact, all you need is calc I. You said you took complex analysis -- well, you could use that too, can't you?

Well, at one time we believed all numbers were constructed by ratios. I suppose calc I may have a theorem that could be applied but the result won't be from first principles. Perhaps we can argue the existence of the inverse since x^n=y is one to one and onto.
 

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