Probability Density and Current of Dirac Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the probability density and current associated with the Dirac equation, particularly in relation to the continuity equation. Participants explore the mathematical formulation and implications of the Dirac equation, including the proper handling of Hermitian conjugates and the relationship between probability density and current.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to derive the probability density and current from the Dirac equation but encounters difficulties with the adjoint operation.
  • Another participant suggests using gamma matrices for a modern treatment of the Dirac equation, which may clarify special relativity invariance.
  • There is a discussion about the correct method of taking the Hermitian conjugate, with emphasis on the need for both complex conjugation and transposition.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the distinction between the scalar product \(\psi^{\dagger}\psi\) and the matrix product \(\psi\psi^{\dagger}\).
  • A later reply provides a detailed derivation involving the Hermitian conjugate of the Dirac equation, leading to a proposed continuity equation for probability.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the continuity equation for electric charge and its relation to the probability current derived from the Dirac equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate mathematical approach to the Dirac equation and the implications of their findings. There is no consensus on the best method to derive the probability density and current, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding certain aspects of the Hermitian conjugate and continuity equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential limitations in their understanding of the Hermitian conjugate operation and its implications for the Dirac equation. There are also references to the complexity of distinguishing between different types of continuity equations.

Sekonda
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Hey,

I'm trying to determine the probability density and current of the Dirac equation by comparison to the general continuity equation. The form of the Dirac equation I have is

[tex]i\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial t}=(-i\underline{\alpha}\cdot\underline{\nabla}+\beta m)\psi[/tex]

According to my notes I am supposed to determine the following sum to make the relevant comparisons to the continuity equation and therefore determine the probability density/current

[tex]\psi(Dirac)^{\dagger}+\psi^{\dagger}(Dirac)[/tex]

Where 'Dirac' refers to the above equation. However I have tried this and I can only get it to work if I multiply one term by 'i' and the other by '-i' in the above.

[tex]\psi(i\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial t})^{\dagger}+\psi^{\dagger}(i\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial t})=-i\psi\frac{\partial \psi^{*}}{\partial t}+i\psi^{*}\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial t}\neq i\frac{\partial (\psi^{*}\psi)}{\partial t}[/tex]

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks,
SK
 
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Your notes should use the gamma matrices. It's the modern treatment on the Dirac equation/field and make the special relativity invariance easier to see.
 
Perhaps they should but I'm reckoning these are introduced later, so considering we don't 'know' these yet this appears to be the simplest way of demonstrating the probability density/current of the Dirac equation. I'm confused though, I perhaps maybe taking the adjoint of the Dirac equation incorrectly.
 
Have you considered that taking the hermitian conjugate is not only taking the complex conjugate but also the transposition?
 
I think so, taking the adjoint of ψ doesn't bring out a minus sign does it? With regards to the RHS of the Dirac equation I think β is diagonal and so the transposition doesn't affect it, though I'm a bit confused as how I'd go about doing the hermitian conjugate on the dot product of the alpha matrix with the ∇...

I wouldn't be surprised though if this transposition is the issue, I'll keep looking at it!
 
Also, [itex]\psi^{\dagger}\psi[/itex] is a number, while [itex]\psi\psi^{\dagger}[/itex] is a matrix, so I don't really quite get the whole thing.
 
Sekonda said:
I think so, taking the adjoint of ψ doesn't bring out a minus sign does it? With regards to the RHS of the Dirac equation I think β is diagonal and so the transposition doesn't affect it, though I'm a bit confused as how I'd go about doing the hermitian conjugate on the dot product of the alpha matrix with the ∇...

I wouldn't be surprised though if this transposition is the issue, I'll keep looking at it!

The complicated thing is correctly taking the Hermitian conjugate of the Dirac equation. What I think is true is this:

  1. [itex]i \dfrac{d\Psi}{dt} = -i \alpha \cdot (\nabla \Psi) + \beta m \Psi[/itex]
  2. [itex]-i \dfrac{d\Psi^\dagger}{dt} = +i (\nabla \Psi^\dagger \cdot \alpha) + \Psi^\dagger \beta m[/itex]
Taking the conjugate reverses the order of matrices. So if you multiply the top equation on the left by [itex]-i \Psi^\dagger[/itex] and multiply the bottom equation on the right by [itex]+i \Psi[/itex] and add them, you get:
[itex]\Psi^\dagger \dfrac{d\Psi}{dt} + \dfrac{d\Psi^\dagger}{dt}\Psi= - \Psi^\dagger \alpha \cdot (\nabla \Psi) - (\nabla \Psi^\dagger) \cdot \alpha \Psi[/itex]

(the terms involving [itex]\beta[/itex] cancel). You can rewrite this as (I think):

[itex]\dfrac{d}{dt} (\Psi^\dagger \Psi) = - \nabla \cdot (\Psi^\dagger \alpha \Psi)[/itex]

This can be rearranged as a continuity equation for probability.

There's a different continuity equation for electric charge, but I've forgotten what that is.
 
Thanks Stevendaryl!

This is exactly what I wanted, I can see what was incorrect now - brilliant!

Thanks again,
SK
 
stevendaryl said:
The complicated thing is correctly taking the Hermitian conjugate of the Dirac equation. What I think is true is this:

  1. [itex]i \dfrac{d\Psi}{dt} = -i \alpha \cdot (\nabla \Psi) + \beta m \Psi[/itex]
  2. [itex]-i \dfrac{d\Psi^\dagger}{dt} = +i (\nabla \Psi^\dagger \cdot \alpha) + \Psi^\dagger \beta m[/itex]
Taking the conjugate reverses the order of matrices. So if you multiply the top equation on the left by [itex]-i \Psi^\dagger[/itex] and multiply the bottom equation on the right by [itex]+i \Psi[/itex] and add them, you get:
[itex]\Psi^\dagger \dfrac{d\Psi}{dt} + \dfrac{d\Psi^\dagger}{dt}\Psi= - \Psi^\dagger \alpha \cdot (\nabla \Psi) - (\nabla \Psi^\dagger) \cdot \alpha \Psi[/itex]

(the terms involving [itex]\beta[/itex] cancel). You can rewrite this as (I think):

[itex]\dfrac{d}{dt} (\Psi^\dagger \Psi) = - \nabla \cdot (\Psi^\dagger \alpha \Psi)[/itex]

This can be rearranged as a continuity equation for probability.

There's a different continuity equation for electric charge, but I've forgotten what that is.

My last comment was stupid. If you multiply probability current by the electron charge, you get the charge current. It's that simple. For some reason, though, that's not the case with the solutions of the Klein Gordon equation.
 

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