Undergrad Probability & Time: Is There a Connection?

[jocarren]

Hi, I'm new in the forums, actually I registered to ask this question (I have these wild, often ridiculous ideas).

Is there a fundamental relationship between the probability of ocurrence of an event and the flow of time around that event?

I mean, imagine an isolated space where some type of events can occur randomly, if we asume that the most probable events will occur earlier than the less probable ones, can we relate the passage of time with that probability distribution?

Put in simple terms: is time a perception of a probability distribution of events in our universe? (More probable events happened before and less probable ones will happen in the future).

 

[PeroK]

Well, you said it yourself. It is a ridiculous idea!

 

[Drakkith]

I mean, imagine an isolated space where some type of events can occur randomly, if we asume that the most probable events will occur earlier than the less probable ones, can we relate the passage of time with that probability distribution?

I don't think so. If we put a block of uranium-238 and a clock in this space, and a block of uranium-235 and a clock in another space, there would be no difference in the passage of time between the two even though their decay rates are very different.

 

[Dale]

I don't think so. If we put a block of uranium-238 and a clock in this space, and a block of uranium-235 and a clock in another space, there would be no difference in the passage of time between the two even though their decay rates are very different.

That is a good example. Even for a block of a single isotope all atoms are equally likely to decay, but they don’t all decay at the same time.

 

[jocarren]

I don't think so. If we put a block of uranium-238 and a clock in this space, and a block of uranium-235 and a clock in another space, there would be no difference in the passage of time between the two even though their decay rates are very different.

Thanks for your answer ;)

Maybe I misused the term "isolated space", what I mean this space is the only space in this universe, there is no other space ouside it (of it is not observable). An observer inside that place will percieve the passage of time is only through the decay of this isotope (using your example).

Other way to see at it is in a universal scale, in the entire Universe, let's say the probability of some quantum field fluctuation to occur is very, very low, would you say is the first thing that happens in the early Universe? or that it will happen some time after?

Is time the perception of the ocurrence of events that are less and less probable?(in a fundamental level).

 

[PeroK]

Is time the perception of the ocurrence of events that are less and less probable?(in a fundamental level).

You could try watching this:

http://www.cornell.edu/video/richard-feynman-messenger-lecture-5-distinction-past-future

 

[jocarren]

Seen it, I'm watching the lecture of his pal Lenny now :P

http://www.cornell.edu/video/leonard-susskind-1-boltzmann-and-the-arrow-of-time

 

[Dale]

Is time the perception of the ocurrence of events that are less and less probable?(in a fundamental level).

We have already answered this: No. This concept of time does not even work for the simplest probabilistic case (decay of unstable particles).

It also does not work for simple deterministic clocks. The day 5 Jan 2018 is less probable than month Feb 2018 but it comes first. And from a broader perspective an unwound clock is more likely than a wound clock but the unwound clock comes last.

 

[russ_watters]

Hi, I'm new in the forums, actually I registered to ask this question (I have these wild, often ridiculous ideas).

Sorry, but the only part that isn't quite ridiculous is this:

I mean, imagine an isolated space where some type of events can occur randomly, if we asume that the most probable events will occur earlier than the less probable ones, can we relate the passage of time with that probability distribution?

Certainly. That's what probability means: a block of U235 decays at a specific rate. And a block of U238 occurs at a slower specific rate.

But you're trying to flip the idea over backwards into having event probability causing (or being) time flow instead of simply being something that occurs over time. It's like suggesting that if there is more traffic, time passes slower.

 

[FactChecker]

Hi, I'm new in the forums, actually I registered to ask this question (I have these wild, often ridiculous ideas).

Is there a fundamental relationship between the probability of ocurrence of an event and the flow of time around that event?

I mean, imagine an isolated space where some type of events can occur randomly, if we asume that the most probable events will occur earlier

Stop right there. For probabilities, you should say "more often", not "earlier". That makes a big difference. It means that no matter how likely or unlikely something is, it (or something similar with the same probability) has already happened and will happen again. So the direction of time is not related to probabilities, as far as our definitions and understanding of probabilities are concerned.

 

[Drakkith]

Maybe I misused the term "isolated space", what I mean this space is the only space in this universe, there is no other space ouside it (of it is not observable). An observer inside that place will percieve the passage of time is only through the decay of this isotope (using your example).

Nothing changes. The uranium-238 would decay with a half life of about 4.5 billion years. The uranium-235 would decay with a half life of about 700 million years.

Other way to see at it is in a universal scale, in the entire Universe, let's say the probability of some quantum field fluctuation to occur is very, very low, would you say is the first thing that happens in the early Universe? or that it will happen some time after?

That's not how probability works. Even an event with an extraordinarily low probability of occurring could occur prior to an event with an extremely high probability of occurring. It is possible that 100 trillion atoms of uranium-238 all decay before any atoms of a block of uranium-232 decay, despite the latter's half life being about 8 orders of magnitude shorter. It is quite impossible to predict with perfect accuracy when a random event will occur, no matter how likely or unlikely.

Is time the perception of the ocurrence of events that are less and less probable?(in a fundamental level).

Only if the laws of physics are fundamentally different than how we currently understand them.

 

[jocarren]

Thank you everyone for your answers, sorry if I hurt your eyes with this kind of questions :)