Problem Involving Counting of Elements in Three Sets

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    Counting Elements Sets
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving the counting of elements in three sets (A, B, and C) based on given union and intersection conditions. Participants explore how to determine the number of elements in set A using relationships between the sets and a hint provided in the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 presents the problem and initial reasoning using a Venn diagram, calculating intersections and differences between the sets.
  • Post 1 expresses uncertainty about the correctness of the approach and seeks clarification on how to incorporate the hint regarding set C being 6x.
  • Post 2 questions a statement about the relationships between the sizes of sets B and C, indicating confusion.
  • Post 3 corrects the typo from Post 2, clarifying that set C is twice as large as set B and three times as large as set A.
  • Post 4 reiterates the problem conditions and suggests that only three of the conditions are necessary to determine the size of A, hinting at potential follow-up questions.
  • Post 5 expresses confusion regarding the hint and the size relationships, questioning how to proceed with solving the problem as an equation of x.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and uncertainty about the hint and the relationships between the sizes of the sets. There is no consensus on how to solve the problem or whether the hint is helpful.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may not require all conditions to find the size of set A, but the exact relationships and how to use them remain unclear. The hint provided is also seen as potentially unhelpful.

Kolmogorov
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Problem:
-The Union of set A, set B and set C has 104 elements.
-The Union of Set A and B has 51 elements
-The Union of Set A and C has 84 elements
-The Union of Set B and C has 97 elements
-The Intersection of Set A and the Union of Set B and C has 17 elements.
-Set C has twice as many elements as set B and three times as many elements as Set A.

How many elements does A have?

Hint: Take C is 6x and solve for x.

This is what I did after drawing a Venn diagram:

A minus B\cupC = 104-97=7
B minus A\cupC = 104-84=20
C minus A\cupB = 104-51=53

If you add up these numbers and subtract them from 104, you'll get that all the intersections of these sets together have 24 elements.

It is given that A\cap(B\cupC) = 17.

Therefore, the intersection of B and C without whatever is in A, should be 7.

From this fact the elements of A can be calculated from the fact that A\cupC has 84 elements. To calculate the elements of A take 84 and subtract the elements of C that are not in A, 84 -53 -7= 24

I didn't use the hint nor did I use the size relationship between the sets, so I am not sure if I did this problem right.

How could I solve this problem with the hint (solve as an equation of x) and the given relationship between A, B and C?
 
Last edited:
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Kolmogorov said:
-Set C has twice as many elements as set B and set B has twice as many elements as Set C.

Huh?
 
Sorry, typo.

Set C is twice as large as B and three times as large as A.
 
Kolmogorov said:
Problem:
-The Union of set A, set B and set C has 104 elements.
-The Union of Set A and B has 51 elements
-The Union of Set A and C has 84 elements
-The Union of Set B and C has 97 elements
-The Intersection of Set A and the Union of Set B and C has 17 elements.
-Set C has twice as many elements as set B, and three times as many elements as Set A.

How many elements does A have?
You only need to use three of the above 7 conditions to determine the size of A, so hopefully there are some interesting follow-up questions to your problem. Given that unhelpful hint, that does not seem too likely.
 
The hint and the size relationship confused me. I don't see how to solve this problem as an equation of x and given the fact that C is twice as large as B and three times as A, but I guess it is possible. If someone sees it, I am curious how to proceed.

There is no follow up question to this problem.

The teacher of this course is a little bit nuts though, on another test he asked to prove that every even integer greater than 4 can be written as the sum of two primes for extra credit.
 
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