Proca Lagrangian (Math troubles with four vectors)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Proca Lagrangian and the associated mathematical challenges encountered while deriving equations of motion for a massive vector field. Participants explore the implications of various terms in the Lagrangian, the use of Hamilton's principle, and the relationship between the Proca field and gauge invariance.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty with the mathematical aspects of the Proca Lagrangian and seeks guidance on specific steps.
  • Another participant suggests simplifying the Lagrangian by omitting terms that do not contribute to the equations of motion, specifically regarding the mass term.
  • A later reply challenges the assertion that certain terms do not contribute, emphasizing the importance of the mass term in the context of the vector particle.
  • Discussion includes a derivation of the equations of motion using Hamilton's principle, leading to the conclusion that the Proca field is necessarily transversal when mass is non-vanishing.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the Proca Lagrangian for gauge invariance, noting that massive vector fields differ from massless ones and mentioning the Stueckelberg mechanism for achieving gauge invariance in massive vector fields.
  • There is mention of the Higgs mechanism as a method for introducing mass in non-abelian gauge theories, contrasting it with the Stueckelberg approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the contribution of specific terms in the Lagrangian, indicating a lack of consensus on the simplifications proposed. The discussion includes both supportive and critical perspectives on the mathematical treatment of the Proca Lagrangian.

Contextual Notes

Some mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the treatment of indices and terms in the Lagrangian remain unresolved, and the discussion reflects varying interpretations of the implications of these terms.

Elwin.Martin
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I'm reading Griffith's Elementary particles and I'm stuck on the math for one of the examples, could anyone show me what I'm missing or point me in the right direction?

I attached a pdf (of the word doc I was using) that shows what I did so far since I'm really bad with LaTeX and it would've taken me an hour to write it for this post.

Thanks in advanced for any and all help/direction; I feel so useless for having to ask, but I need to get through this.

Elwin

**any review material on the math would be nice if you have recommendations!**
 

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I'll write something up for you to help, let me compose it.

So we know the last part doesn't do anything, so let's not even put it in for now till we need it.
Lets multiply out the Lagrangian to see explicitly what's going on with the indices.
<br /> \mathcal{L}=-\frac{1}{16\pi}(\partial^a A^b\partial_a A_b -\partial^a A^b \partial_b A_a -\partial^b A^a \partial_a A_b +\partial^b A^a \partial_b A_b)<br />
Now anytime you sum over repeated indices, it doesn't matter what the letter used is, because you are summing over it. So change them so that you can simplify. If you look closer at this, there are really only two different expressions with the partial derivative and the vector potential: \partial^c A^d \partial_c A_d and \partial^d A^c \partial_c A_d. So you have two of these, that is,
<br /> \mathcal{L}=-\frac{1}{8\pi}(\partial^c A^d \partial_c A_d-\partial^d A^c \partial_c A_d)<br />
With this in mind, try to do what you did before with this new information in your mind.
 
Last edited:
jfy4 said:
I'll write something up for you to help, let me compose it.

Thank you very much!
 
Why shouldn't the last term contribute anything? Of course it does contribute something, namely the mass of the vector particle.
 
Yes, of course. I meant for
<br /> \frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_a A_b)}<br />
we can ignore it. It's definitely important, as the distinguishing factor between E&M.
 
I see. BTW, it's definitely simpler to directly use Hamilton's principle to derive the eoms. I'll write the Proca action in modern Heaviside-Lorentz units, leading to

S[A_{\mu}]=\int \mathrm{d}^4 x \left (-\frac{1}{4} F_{\mu \nu} F^{\mu \nu} + \frac{1}{2} A_{\mu} A^{\mu} \right ).

I use the west-coast metric. That's why I have a + sign in front of the mass term. Variation with respect to A_{\mu} and using the anti-symmetry of the Faraday tensor, F_{\mu \nu}=\partial_{\mu} A_{\nu}-\partial_{\nu} A_{\mu} leads to

\delta S=\int \mathrm{d}^4 x \left ( -F^{\mu \nu} \partial_{\mu} \delta A_{\nu} + m^2 A_{\nu} \delta A^{\nu} \right )= \int \mathrm{d}^4 x \left (\partial_{\mu} F^{\mu \nu} + m^2 A^{\nu} \right ) \delta A_{\nu} \stackrel{!}{=}0.

From this we have the equation of motion

\partial_{\mu} F^{\mu \nu} + m^2 A^{\nu}=0.

First from this you get by taking the four-divergence of this equation, using \partial_{\mu} \partial_{\nu} F^{\mu \nu}=0

m^2 \partial_{\nu} A^{\nu}=0.

The Proca field with non-vanishing mass is thus necessarily transversal (contrary to the massless photon field).

From this we can rewrite the eom.
\partial_{\mu} F^{\mu \nu}=\partial_{\mu} (\partial^{\mu} A^{\nu}-\partial^{\nu} A^{\mu})=\Box A^{\nu}=-m^2 A^{\nu}.

This shows that m is indeed the mass of the vector particle.

One should also mention that a massive vector field is not necessarily an (at least abelian) gauge field as turns out to be the case for massless vector fields. However to build renormalizable interacting field theories one can make the Proca Lagrangian U(1)-gauge invariant by adding an additional scalar field (the Stueckelberg ghost) and then use the usual minimal-coupling approach to couple the massive vector field to other matter fields (e.g., scalar and/or Dirac fields) to get a gauge-invariant theory with massive gauge fields. It turns out that after gauge fixing the Stueckelberg ghost doesn't couple to the other fields as don't the Feynman-Faddeev-Popov ghosts in this abelian-gauge model.

This socalled Stueckelberg realization of massive vector fields doesn't work for non-abelian gauge theories, i.e., then the only way to make the non-abelian gauge fields massive without destroying local gauge invariance is via the Higgs mechanism, where you absorb the would-be Goldstone bosons into the gauge field but always keep at least one additional massive Higgs boson left in the physical particle spectrum.
 
Thanks vanhees71,

That's nice to see :smile:
 

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