Proof needed to show that an angle remains constant along a line

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the geometry of a knife sharpener and the proof required to demonstrate that the angle of the sharpening media remains constant along the length of the blade. Participants explore the relationships between various components of the sharpener, including the clamp, pivot point, and guide rod, while addressing the implications of blade curvature and angle measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster describes a knife sharpener setup and seeks to prove that the angle of the sharpening media remains constant along the blade's length.
  • Some participants suggest that the angle remains constant due to the geometric relationships in the setup, specifically that the arc described by the guide rod lies in a plane that includes the pivot point and the knife edge.
  • Others question the assumption that the knife edge is straight, noting that many knives have curved edges, which could affect the angle consistency.
  • One participant expresses confusion over the calculated angle of 40.601 degrees with the given dimensions, indicating a need for clarification on the geometry involved.
  • There are suggestions for improving clarity in the diagrams and labeling key components to aid understanding of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the angle remains constant, particularly regarding the implications of blade curvature. There is no consensus on the validity of the original poster's claim or the assumptions made about the knife's edge.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in understanding due to unclear diagrams and the complexity of the knife sharpener's geometry. The discussion highlights the dependence on specific definitions and assumptions about the knife's edge and the setup's mechanics.

clayallison
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This is my problem:

On my knife sharpener, there is a Clamp that holds the blade vertically, edge up. At the base of the clamp and perpendicular to the blade, there is a Base Rod with a Pivot Point that slides along the Base Rod to establish an angle relative to the blade. The third side of the triangle is created by the sharpening media sliding on a Guide Rod, anchored at the Pivot Point. T triangle could be described as follows: Side A = height of the Clamp + height of blade above the clamp. Side B = Distance along Base Rod between the Pivot Point and Side A. We can calculate the angle AC knowing that angle AB is a right angle and knowing the length of Side A and Side B. Where I run into problems is proving that the angle of the sharpening media will remain constant along the length of the blade. The diagrams below help illustrate the issue.

[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/graphics/Constant [/URL][/URL] Angle- pt 1.png[/PLAIN]
[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/graphics/Constant [/URL][/URL] Angle- pt 2.png[/PLAIN]
[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/graphics/Constant [/URL][/URL] Angle- pt 3.png[/PLAIN]
[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/graphics/Constant [/URL][/URL] Angle- pt 4.png[/PLAIN]
[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/graphics/Constant [/URL][/URL] Angle- pt 5.png[/PLAIN]

In the diagrams, the Clamp is 6" and the distance of the Pivot Point from the clamp is 6". The height of the knife above the clamp is 1". I can see that the sharpening medium stays in the same plane relative to the knife, I just can't remember a way to prove it.

Any help would be most appreciated.
 
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Another couple of pictures to illustrate the problem:

[PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/photos/angle-change-at-0-inches-sm.jpg
[PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/photos/angle-change-at-5-inches-sm.jpg

If it helps to see the sharpener in action, you can see it here: http://www.wickededgeusa.com"
***I'm not trying to promote the product just supplying the link if seeing the sharpener will help with the math.
 
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Since there are no replies yet, I'm thinking of offering a prize. Any interest?
 
It might help for clarity's sake if you labeled your diagram with what side A is, what the pivot point is etc. It's not really clear to me what it is you're trying to solve (perhaps because of my unfamiliarity with knife sharpeners)
 
The 40.601 degree angle with identical (6.000) leg lengths has me baffled.
 
Office_Shredder said:
It might help for clarity's sake if you labeled your diagram with what side A is, what the pivot point is etc. It's not really clear to me what it is you're trying to solve (perhaps because of my unfamiliarity with knife sharpeners)

Thank you, sorry for the lack of clarity. I've been out of school and away from maths so long that I'm sure my question seems a mess. Here are a few more images, labeled a little more clearly.

[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/blog/images/constant [/URL][/URL] angle 1.png[/PLAIN]
[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/blog/images/constant [/URL][/URL] angle 2.png[/PLAIN]
[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/blog/images/constant [/URL][/URL] angle 5.png[/PLAIN]
[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/blog/images/constant [/URL][/URL] angle 4.png[/PLAIN]
[PLAIN][PLAIN]http://www.wickededgeusa.com/blog/images/constant [/URL][/URL] angle 3.png[/PLAIN]

The stone is shown moving in relation to the blade, the plane staying constant, keeping the sharpening angle constant.
 
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Chronos said:
The 40.601 degree angle with identical (6.000) leg lengths has me baffled.

That was 6" for the height of the clamp + 1" for the height of the knife, making the overall length of the side 7".

Again, sorry for the messy first posting. I had forgotten to pull out the dimensions since they were arbitrary.
 
Simple. The arc described by your "guide rod" lies in a plane. The "pivot point" lies in that plane and the straight line, which in this case is the edge of your knife blade, lies in that plane as well. Since planes are flat, at least in Newtonian physics they are, last time I checked, the angle between the blade and the plane must remain constant. I hope you are now unbaffled!
 
SingleNote said:
the straight line, which in this case is the edge of your knife blade
Where does the OP say the edge of the knife is straight? Isn't that exactly the problem? Most knives have curved edges. Unfortunately I can't seem to view the diagrams, but the only way I can imagine that the sharpener could maintain a constant angle to the plane of the blade is if it has some fancy device for detecting the curve of the knife and adjusting the distance to the pivot accordingly. And I very much doubt it has that.
Rather, I should think it depends on the fact that the distance from pivot to knife edge is large compared with the variation in blade height, so although the angle changes it won't be by much.
 

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