Proof that a sequence has two subsequential limits

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof that a sequence has two subsequential limits, specifically examining the sequence ##a_n = 2^{(-1)^n}##. Participants explore the nature of subsequential limits, methods to demonstrate their existence, and the conditions under which a sequence may have a finite number of subsequential limits despite having infinitely many distinct elements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the sequence ##a_n = 2^{(-1)^n}## and claims it has two subsequential limits, ##\{\frac{1}{2}, 2\}##, based on observation.
  • Another participant suggests that to prove these are subsequential limits, one can choose subsequences that converge to these values, and to show there are no other limits, one can demonstrate that any other real number differs from the sequence by a fixed ##\epsilon>0##.
  • A later reply questions whether the method for proving the exhaustiveness of subsequential limits can be generalized for any sequence, prompting further exploration of conditions for subsequential limits.
  • Some participants note that the approach works because the set of values of the sequence has finite cardinality, while questioning its applicability to sequences with infinite cardinality.
  • One participant provides an example of a sequence with infinite distinct elements but only two subsequential limits, suggesting that specific proofs may be necessary to verify the number of subsequential limits in such cases.
  • Another participant mentions that many sequences, such as monotonic sequences that approach a limit, can exhibit this behavior.
  • Discussion includes a hypothetical sequence with alternating values and how to demonstrate its subsequential limits, emphasizing the complexity of proving exhaustiveness in cases with infinite distinct values.
  • One participant asserts that a limit is defined as a number that sequence elements can get arbitrarily close to, reinforcing the idea that the sequence must approach its subsequential limits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and uncertainty regarding the methods to prove subsequential limits and the conditions under which they exist. There is no consensus on a general method for proving exhaustiveness of subsequential limits for sequences with infinite cardinality.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their arguments, including the dependence on the cardinality of the set of sequence values and the need for case-specific proofs in certain scenarios.

Mr Davis 97
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Suppose I have the sequence ##a_n = 2^{(-1)^n}##. So ##\displaystyle (a_n) = (\frac{1}{2},2,\frac{1}{2},2,\frac{1}{2},2,\frac{1}{2},2,...)##. Clearly, this sequence has two subsequential limits, ##\displaystyle \{\frac{1}{2},2 \}##. This clear from observation, but I'm not sure how I can be sure and show that these two are subsequantial limits and the only subsequential limits.
 
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To show that they are subsequential limits just choose the two obvious subsequences that have them as limits because they are constant on that value.

To show there are no other subseq limits, let x be a real number that is neither 1/2 nor 2 and show that there is some ##\epsilon>0## such that every member of the whole sequence differs from x by at least ##\epsilon##. It follows that every member of any subsequence also differs from x by at least ##\epsilon##.
 
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andrewkirk said:
To show that they are subsequential limits just choose the two obvious subsequences that have them as limits because they are constant on that value.

To show there are no other subseq limits, let x be a real number that is neither 1/2 nor 2 and show that there is some ##\epsilon>0## such that every member of the whole sequence differs from x by at least ##\epsilon##. It follows that every member of any subsequence also differs from x by at least ##\epsilon##.
Would this work for sequences in general? For example, if I give you a sequence ##(a_n)## and the set of subsequential limits (that I find perhaps by inspection), is there a general way to prove that there are no other subequential limits, and that the list is exhaustive?
 
The reason the above works is that the set of values of sequence elements has finite cardinality (cardinality is 2). The same approach can be taken for any sequence where that set of values has finite cardinality. It won't work where the set is infinite.
 
andrewkirk said:
The reason the above works is that the set of values of sequence elements has finite cardinality (cardinality is 2). The same approach can be taken for any sequence where that set of values has finite cardinality. It won't work where the set is infinite.
Is there an example of sequence whose set of values of sequence elements has infinite cardinaliity, but a finite number of subsequential limits, thus needing to prove that set of subsequential limits is exhaustive?

For example, what about ##a_n = 2^{(-1)^n(2n+1)}##?
 
Many sequences will be of that type.
For instance, any monotonic sequence that asymptotically approaches a limit, such as ##a_n=1/n##.
 
andrewkirk said:
Many sequences will be of that type.
For instance, any monotonic sequence that asymptotically approaches a limit, such as ##a_n=1/n##.
But suppose that a sequence has infinitely many distict sequence elements, and that is has, say, two elements in its set of subsequential limits. How could you verify that there are no more than 2 subsequential limits?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
But suppose that a sequence has infinitely many distict sequence elements, and that is has, say, two elements in its set of subsequential limits. How could you verify that there are no more than 2 subsequential limits?
I doubt there is any general method for doing that. But in any particular case it may be possible to produce a case-specific proof based on how the sequence is specified. My guess is that in most cases it may be reasonably straightforward to produce a proof, but that the nature of the proofs would differ between cases.

Take for instance the sequence whose nth element is 1 if n is odd and 1/n if n is even. I imagine you would find it fairly easy to show the only subsequential limits of this are {0,1} despite there being infinitely many values.
 
a limit is a number your sequence elements get (and stay) arbitrarily close to. doesn't that pretty much do it? i.e. you cannot get closer than 1/4 say to anything but 1/2 and 2 with that sequence, but you can easily get and stay as close as you like to those two.
 

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