Proper Volume on Constant Hypersurface in Alcubierre Metric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proper volume of the warped region in the Alcubierre spacetime for a constant time hypersurface. Participants explore the implications of coordinate transformations and the geometric properties of volume in general relativity, particularly in relation to the behavior of spacetime around a hypothetical warp bubble.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a coordinate transformation to eliminate the diagonal in the metric, resulting in a determinant of the spatial metric that raises questions about the proper volume calculation.
  • Another participant questions the expectation that the proper volume behind the bubble should be larger than in front, prompting a discussion on the nature of volume elements in the context of spacetime expansion and contraction.
  • A participant suggests that volume elements behind the bubble are expanding while those in front are contracting, citing specific values for the bubble's radius and surface tension.
  • Concerns are raised about the definition of "proper volume" in general relativity, emphasizing the dependence on foliation and the need for a geometrically significant foliation to make meaningful volume measurements.
  • One participant references the trace of the extrinsic curvature tensor as a potential indicator of expansion rates, although they acknowledge this may not directly support their earlier claims.
  • A later reply suggests that "proper volume" could be interpreted as the volume of the bubble as perceived by an observer at rest inside it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of proper volume and its calculation in the context of the Alcubierre metric. There is no consensus on the expectations regarding volume behind and in front of the bubble, nor on the definition of proper volume itself.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities of defining volume in general relativity, particularly in non-trivial spacetimes like the Alcubierre metric. Participants note the importance of foliation and the potential influence of extrinsic curvature on volume perceptions.

Onyx
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TL;DR
Finding the proper volume in the Alcubierre metric for a constant $t$ hypersurface.
I'm wondering if there is a way to find the proper volume of the warped region of the Alcubierre spacetime for a constant ##t## hypersurface. I can do a coordinate transformation ##t=τ+G(x)##, where ##G(x)=\int \frac{-vf}{1-v^2f^2}dx##. This eliminates the diagonal and makes it so that the determinant of the spatial metric is ##\frac{1}{1-v^2f^2}##. But this doesn't seem right for finding the volume because it is an even function over ##x## and ##-x##, while I would have expected the proper volume to the rear of the bubble to be bigger than in the front. Is there some other transformation I would need to make?
 
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Onyx said:
I would have expected the proper volume to the rear of the bubble to be bigger than in the front.
Why would you expect this?
 
Because the volume elements behind the bubble are expanding while in front they are contracting. Given a bubble of ##R=4## and ##\sigma=1##, I figured that integrating the spatial volume on the ##t=0## hypersurface would produce a larger volume from ##x=-3## to ##x=-5## than from ##x=3## to ##x=5##, since the elements are in the process of expanding/contracting.
 
Last edited:
What do you mean by proper volume? The volume in GR is strongly dependent on foliation. Unless there is some geometrically significant foliation (e.g. hypersurface orthogonal to a timelike KVF, or identified by homogeneity - as in cosmology, etc.) I don't understand what can by meant by "proper volume".
 
Onyx said:
Because the volume elements behind the bubble are expanding while in front they are contracting.
Why do you think that? (Hint: can you point at something in the actual math that says that?)
 
PAllen said:
What do you mean by proper volume? The volume in GR is strongly dependent on foliation. Unless there is some geometrically significant foliation (e.g. hypersurface orthogonal to a timelike KVF, or identified by homogeneity - as in cosmology, etc.) I don't understand what can by meant by "proper volume".
Well I guess I mean how the space around the bubble is perceived by a distant observer at constant ##t##.
 
PeterDonis said:
Why do you think that? (Hint: can you point at something in the actual math that says that?)
I guess the only reason would be the graph of the trace of the extrinsic curvature tensor, which shows the rate of expansion in front of and behind the bubble, with the rate being negative in the front. Of course, this is different from what I've been talking about, so not the best reason.
 
Onyx said:
proper volume: how the space around the bubble is perceived by a distant observer
would it perhaps be the volume of the bubble as measured by someone at rest inside it?
 

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