Properties of the Absolute Value

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the property of absolute values, specifically the statement that for real numbers a and b, |ab| = |a||b|. Participants explore proofs and reasoning behind this property, including various definitions and cases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses curiosity about proving the property of absolute values and requests assistance.
  • Another participant outlines a proof using case analysis based on the signs of a and b, demonstrating that |ab| = |a||b| in all scenarios.
  • A different participant provides a structured approach to the proof, reiterating the definition of absolute value and showing how the cases align with the property in question.
  • Some participants introduce complex numbers into the discussion, suggesting that the property holds in that context as well, using polar forms and Euler's formula.
  • One participant presents a proof using square roots, showing the relationship between |ab| and |a||b| through algebraic manipulation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on a single proof method, as participants present various approaches and interpretations, including real and complex number contexts. The discussion remains open with multiple viewpoints on how to prove the property.

Contextual Notes

Some proofs rely on specific definitions of absolute value and may not address all edge cases or assumptions explicitly. The introduction of complex numbers adds complexity to the discussion without resolving the primary focus on real numbers.

roam
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Just wanted to say hi before I start my post! :smile:

As you may know there is a property of the absolute value that states; for a, b \in R;

|ab| = |a||b|

Well, my friend asked me if I knew a proof for this... but I don't know...
How can we prove this statement/property? I know there is a proof for the triangle inequality but for this I really don't know but I'm curious.


I'd appreciate it if anyone could show me any kind of proof or send me some links etc. Thanks!
 
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You prove that |ab|= |a||b| the same way you prove any such elementary statement: use the definitions.

The simplest definition of |x| (there are several equivalent definitions) is that |x|= x if x is positive or 0, -x if x is negative.

Now break it into "cases":

case 1: x and y are both positive: |x|= x and |y|= y. xy is also positive so |xy|= xy= |x||y|.

case 2: x is positive while y is negative: |x|= x and |y|= -y. xy is negative so |xy|= -xy= x(-y)= |x||y|.

case 3: x is negative while y is positive: |x|= -x and |y|= y. xy is negative so |xy|= -xy= (-x)y= |x||y|.

case 4: x and y are both negative: |x|= -x and |y|= -y. xy is positive so |xy|= xy= (-x)(-y)= |x||y|.

case 5: x= 0 and y is positive: |x|= 0 and |y|= y. xy= 0 so |xy|= 0= 0(y)= |x||y|.

case 6: x= 0 and y is negative: |x|= 0 and |y|= -y. xy= 0 so |xy|= 0= (0)(-y)= |x||y|.

case 7: x is positive and y is 0: |x|= x and |y|= 0. xy= 0 so |xy|= 0= x(0)= |x||y|.

case 8: x is negative and y is 0: |x|= -x and |y|= 0. xy= 0 so |xy|= 0 = (-x)(0)= |x||y|.

case 9: both x and y are 0: |x|= 0 and |y|= 0. xy= 0 so |xy|= 0= (0)(0)= |x||y|.

There are simpler ways to prove that but I thought this would be conceptually clearest.
 
First, we have to understand that the absolute value is a function defined by:

|x| = \begin{cases}<br /> x &amp; \text{if } x\geq 0 \\<br /> -x &amp; \text{if } x&lt;0<br /> \end{cases}

So,

|ab| = \begin{cases}<br /> ab &amp; \text{if } ab\geq 0 \\<br /> -ab &amp; \text{if } ab&lt;0<br /> \end{cases}

Now, let's see what |a||b| is:

|a||b| = \begin{cases}<br /> ab &amp; \text{if } a\geq 0 \wedge b\geq0 \\<br /> (-a)(-b) &amp; \text{if } a\leq 0 \wedge b\leq0 \\<br /> (-a)b &amp; \text{if } a&gt; 0 \wedge b&lt;0 \\<br /> a(-b) &amp; \text{if } a&lt;0 \wedge b&lt;0<br /> \end{cases} \Leftrightarrow<br />

|a||b| = \begin{cases}<br /> ab &amp; \text{if } a\geq 0 \wedge b\geq0 \\<br /> ab &amp; \text{if } a\leq 0 \wedge b\leq0 \\<br /> -ab &amp; \text{if } a&gt; 0 \wedge b&lt;0 \\<br /> -ab &amp; \text{if } a&lt;0 \wedge b&lt;0<br /> \end{cases} \Leftrightarrow<br />

Notice that you have ab if a and b have the same sign and that you use -ab otherwise.

Now, if a and b have the same sign, ab\geq0. If they have opposite signs (and are different than zero), ab&lt;0.

Using this,

|a||b| = \begin{cases}<br /> ab &amp; \text{if } ab \geq 0 \\<br /> -ab &amp; \text{if } ab&lt;0<br /> \end{cases} = |ab|<br />

Quod erat demonstrandum :-p
 
Last edited:
let a = mcis(kpi) where m => 0, k is integer
and b = ncis(hpi) where n => 0, h integer
(clearly a,b are real)

|a||b|= mn
|ab|=|mcis(kpi)*ncis(hpi)| = |mncis[pi(k+h)]| = mn

as required
 
quark1005 said:
let a = mcis(kpi) where m => 0, k is integer
and b = ncis(hpi) where n => 0, h integer
(clearly a,b are real)

|a||b|= mn
|ab|=|mcis(kpi)*ncis(hpi)| = |mncis[pi(k+h)]| = mn

as required

This would make more sense if you had said that "mcis(hpi)" is
m (cos(h\pi)+ i sin(h\pi))
That is much more an "engineering notation" than mathematics.

If you really want to go to complex numbers, why not
if
x= r_xe^{i\theta_x}
and
y= r_ye^{i\theta_y}, then
|xy|= |r_xe^{i\theta_x}r_ye^{i\theta_y}|= |(r_xr_y)e^{i(\theta_x+\theta_y)}|

But for any z= re^{i\theta}, |z|= r, so
|xy|= r_x r_y= |x||y|
 
\Huge |ab|=\sqrt{(ab)^2}=\sqrt{a^2b^2}=\sqrt{a^2}\sqrt{b^2}=|a||b|

and

\large |a+b|=\sqrt{(a+b)^2}=\sqrt{a^2+2ab+b^2}\leq \sqrt{a^2+|2ab|+b^2}=\sqrt{(|a|+|b|)^2}=||a|+|b||

where I utilize the following fact:

|2ab|=|2(ab)|=|2||ab|=2|a||b|

-----
À bientôt
?;-D
 

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