Prove a sum is a composite number

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that for positive integers \( p, q, r, s \) satisfying the equation \( ps = q^2 + qr + r^2 \), the expression \( p^2 + q^2 + r^2 + s^2 \) is a composite number. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and exploration of conditions under which the claim holds.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a claim that \( p^2 + q^2 + r^2 + s^2 \) is composite under the given conditions.
  • Another participant questions the validity of referring to the number as composite, suggesting that if one of the factors is 1, it cannot be considered composite.
  • A subsequent reply argues that the scenario where \( p - q - r + s = 1 \) leads to a contradiction, as it implies \( p = q = r = s = 1 \), which does not satisfy the original equation.
  • Further contributions reiterate the elimination of the possibility of \( p - q - r + s = 1 \) and emphasize the necessity of this condition in the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the definition of composite in this context, with some asserting that the expression can be composite while others challenge this notion based on the presence of the factor 1. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the values of \( p, q, r, s \) and the implications of the conditions discussed. The mathematical steps leading to the conclusion about composite status are not fully resolved.

anemone
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For positive integers $p,\,q,\,r,\,s$ such that $ps=q^2+qr+r^2$, prove that $p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2$ is a composite number.
 
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My solution:

From the given:

$$ps=q^2+qr+r^2$$

We obtain:

$$q^2+r^2=2ps-(q+r)^2$$

And so:

$$p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2=p^2+2ps+s^2-(q+r)^2=(p+s)^2-(q+r)^2=(p+q+r+s)(p-q-r+s)$$

Which shows the given expression is composite.
 
Nice one, MarkFL! Thanks for participating too. :)
 
if one talks of algebraic expression being composite I agree but if one talks of the number being composite this is not correct as one of the factors could be 1
 
kaliprasad said:
if one talks of algebraic expression being composite I agree but if one talks of the number being composite this is not correct as one of the factors could be 1
That possibility is easily eliminated. If $p-q-r+s = 1$ then the equation becomes $p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2 = p+q+r+s$. That can only hold for positive integers if $p=q=r=s=1$. But in that case the equation $ps = q^2+qr+r^2$ does not hold.
 
Opalg said:
That possibility is easily eliminated. If $p-q-r+s = 1$ then the equation becomes $p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2 = p+q+r+s$. That can only hold for positive integers if $p=q=r=s=1$. But in that case the equation $ps = q^2+qr+r^2$ does not hold.

addition of above completes the proof. IN other words this was the missing link. Thanks Opalg
 
Opalg said:
That possibility is easily eliminated. If $p-q-r+s = 1$ then the equation becomes $p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2 = p+q+r+s$. That can only hold for positive integers if $p=q=r=s=1$. But in that case the equation $ps = q^2+qr+r^2$ does not hold.

Thanks Opalg to the rescue.:o

Another method (I'll admit that I overlooked the necessity to show that $p-q-r+s \ne 1$, as I thought that was quite obvious and now after pondering about it, I owed MHB a good and solid reason why $p-q-r+s \ne 1$).

We will prove it by contradiction.

Suppose $p+s = 1+q+r$ Then squaring it and using the fact $ps = q^2+qr+r^2$ twice gives

$p^2+s^2+(q-1)^2+(r-1)^2=1$

However, since $p^2+s^2 \ge 2$, we have reached to a contradiction.

Therefore, $p-q-r+s \ge 2$ and $p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2$ is composite.
 

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