Prove AUB=BUA: Simple Proof Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of the equality A ∪ B = B ∪ A, focusing on the validity of a specific proof approach and the necessary justifications for set inclusions. Participants explore the implications of the proof structure and the definitions involved, with a particular emphasis on the concept of arbitrary elements in set theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof that A ∪ B = B ∪ A by showing that for an arbitrary element x, if x is in A ∪ B, then it must also be in B ∪ A, arguing for inclusion.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the proof, suggesting it only demonstrates A ∪ B ⊆ B ∪ A and not the reverse inclusion.
  • Some participants propose that proving one inclusion can imply the other if the sets are substituted appropriately, although this is contested.
  • There is a discussion about the professor's differing viewpoint on the proof, particularly regarding the use of "arbitrary x" and the implications of showing A ⊆ B ∪ A and B ⊆ B ∪ A.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the professor's reasoning and whether it aligns with standard mathematical proof requirements.
  • One participant reflects on the context of the class being taught in a computer science department, suggesting that the approach might differ from that in a mathematics department.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that formal justification for both inclusions is necessary, but they remain divided on the professor's interpretation and the validity of the original proof presented. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the proof's correctness.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof relies on the definitions of set union and the concept of arbitrary elements, but there is uncertainty about whether the proof adequately addresses both inclusions required for equality.

SixNein
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Prove AUB=BUA

Let xεAUB
xεA or xεB (Definition of union)

case 1: xεA
xεBUA (Def of union)
since x is arbitrary, must be true for all x. (inclusion)
therefore, AUB=BUA

Case 2: xεB
xεBUA (Def of union)
since x is arbitrary, must be true for all x. (inclusion)
therefore, AUB=BUA
Now, I was told that the above proof was valid by a professor. But I don't see how it could be valid as it is written. The only proof I can arguably see here is a proof that AUB[itex]\subseteq[/itex]BUA.

From the way its written, case 1 shows that A[itex]\subseteq[/itex]BUA while case 2 shows that B[itex]\subseteq[/itex]BUA; therefore, the conclusion would be AUB[itex]\subseteq[/itex]BUA.

Maybe I'm missing something here..?
 
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You are right. But if we substitute A and B, then we also get a proof for the other inclusion. That is: a proof for the other inclusion follows from proving the first inclusion.
 
micromass said:
You are right. But if we substitute A and B, then we also get a proof for the other inclusion. That is: a proof for the other inclusion follows from proving the first inclusion.

See I tired to point this out in class. The professor argued that my argument of
A→B and B→A therefore A=B was a totally different proof. And some how, he accomplishes the same thing without using this because of something to do with his description of an "arbitrary x".
 
SixNein said:
See I tired to point this out in class. The professor argued that my argument of
A→B and B→A therefore A=B was a totally different proof. And some how, he accomplishes the same thing without using this because of something to do with his description of an "arbitrary x".

OK, what about this:

First we prove (as in the OP) that [itex]E\cup F\subseteq F\cup E[/itex] for ALL sets E and F. This is what the OP does, right??

Now, we want to prove that [itex]A\cup B=B\cup A[/itex] for all sets A and B.
Well
[itex]\subseteq[/itex] follows if we take E=A and F=B.
[itex]\supseteq[/itex] follows if we take E=B and F=A.
So equality holds.
 
micromass said:
OK, what about this:

First we prove (as in the OP) that [itex]E\cup F\subseteq F\cup E[/itex] for ALL sets E and F. This is what the OP does, right??

Now, we want to prove that [itex]A\cup B=B\cup A[/itex] for all sets A and B.
Well
[itex]\subseteq[/itex] follows if we take E=A and F=B.
[itex]\supseteq[/itex] follows if we take E=B and F=A.
So equality holds.

Let me ask you this:

Would you agree that in case 1: he essentially showed that A⊆BUA?
Would you also agree that in case 2: he essentially showed that B⊆BUA?

He believed that they didn't.

Why would he think that?

At any rate, I agree with you here; however, he seemed to be making a different argument (during the discussion).
 
SixNein said:
Let me ask you this:

Would you agree that in case 1: he essentially showed that A⊆BUA?
Would you also agree that in case 2: he essentially showed that B⊆BUA?

He believed that they didn't.

Why would he think that?

At any rate, I agree with you here; however, he seemed to be making a different argument (during the discussion).

I agree with you here.

Formally, you indeed need to provide justification for both inclusions.

However, I wasn't present at the discussion, so I can't really say what your professor was trying to say. All I can say is that I think you have a good understanding of this situation and that what you say is correct.
 
micromass said:
I agree with you here.

Formally, you indeed need to provide justification for both inclusions.

However, I wasn't present at the discussion, so I can't really say what your professor was trying to say. All I can say is that I think you have a good understanding of this situation and that what you say is correct.

I just needed some extra eyes on it. I could have been wrong.

The class is being taught out of the computer science department. I honestly don't think this would have been an issue in the mathematics department.

ANyway, thanks for your time.
 

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