Prove Inequality w/o Knowledge of $\pi$

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the inequality $$1\lt \int_{3}^{5} \frac{1}{\sqrt{-x^2+8x-12}}\,dx \lt \frac{2\sqrt{3}}{3}$$ without assuming or using the decimal value of $\pi$. The focus is on mathematical reasoning and problem-solving techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose various solutions to the integral, aiming to establish the inequality without reference to $\pi$.
  • Others express appreciation for specific approaches, such as a geometry-based method that avoids using $\pi$.
  • There are multiple solutions presented, indicating different methods and reasoning processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to have differing solutions and approaches, with no consensus on a single method or outcome. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Some solutions may depend on specific assumptions or interpretations of the integral, which are not fully articulated in the discussion.

anemone
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Prove, with no knowledge of the decimal value of $\pi$ should be assumed or used that $$1\lt \int_{3}^{5} \frac{1}{\sqrt{-x^2+8x-12}}\,dx \lt \frac{2\sqrt{3}}{3}$$.
 
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My solution:

We are given to prove:

$$1<\int_{3}^{5} \frac{1}{\sqrt{-x^2+8x-12}}\,dx<\frac{2}{\sqrt{3}}\tag{1}$$

If we move the integral 4 units to the left, and then use the even function rule, and divide through by 2, we obtain:

$$\frac{1}{2}<\int_0^1\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-x^2}}\,dx<\frac{1}{\sqrt{3}}$$

If we define:

$$f(x)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-x^2}}$$

then there results:

$$f'(x)=\frac{x}{(4-x^2)^{\frac{3}{2}}}$$

Since the integrand is strictly increasing within the bounds, we know that the integral is greater than the left Riemann sum and less than the right sum. Using 1 partition, we may then write:

$$f(0)<\int_0^1\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-x^2}}\,dx<f(1)$$

Or:

$$\frac{1}{2}<\int_0^1\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-x^2}}\,dx<\frac{1}{\sqrt{3}}$$

Shown as desired.
 
Nicely done, MarkFL.
 
MarkFL said:
My solution:

We are given to prove:

$$1<\int_{3}^{5} \frac{1}{\sqrt{-x^2+8x-12}}\,dx<\frac{2}{\sqrt{3}}\tag{1}$$

If we move the integral 4 units to the left, and then use the even function rule, and divide through by 2, we obtain:

$$\frac{1}{2}<\int_0^1\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-x^2}}\,dx<\frac{1}{\sqrt{3}}$$

If we define:

$$f(x)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-x^2}}$$

then there results:

$$f'(x)=\frac{x}{(4-x^2)^{\frac{3}{2}}}$$

Since the integrand is strictly increasing within the bounds, we know that the integral is greater than the left Riemann sum and less than the right sum. Using 1 partition, we may then write:

$$f(0)<\int_0^1\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-x^2}}\,dx<f(1)$$

Or:

$$\frac{1}{2}<\int_0^1\frac{1}{\sqrt{4-x^2}}\,dx<\frac{1}{\sqrt{3}}$$

Shown as desired.

Awesome, MarkFL!(Cool) And thanks for participating!
 
anemone said:
Prove, with no knowledge of the decimal value of $\pi$ should be assumed or used that $$1\lt \int_{3}^{5} \frac{1}{\sqrt{-x^2+8x-12}}\,dx \lt \frac{2\sqrt{3}}{3}$$.
my solution:
let $y=x-4 ,$ we have :
$$$\int_{3}^{5} \frac{1}{\sqrt{-x^2+8x-12}}\,dx =2\int_{0}^{1}\dfrac{dy}{\sqrt {2^2-y^2}}=2sin^{-1}\dfrac{1}{2}=\dfrac {\pi}{3}---(1)$$$
we know $\pi>3$ and $\sqrt 3>\dfrac{\pi}{2}$
we get $1<(1)=\dfrac {\pi}{3}<\dfrac {2\sqrt 3}{3}$
 
Albert said:
my solution:
let $y=x-4 ,$ we have :
$$$\int_{3}^{5} \frac{1}{\sqrt{-x^2+8x-12}}\,dx =2\int_{0}^{1}\dfrac{dy}{\sqrt {2^2-y^2}}=2sin^{-1}\dfrac{1}{2}=\dfrac {\pi}{3}---(1)$$$
we know $\pi>3$ and $\sqrt 3>\dfrac{\pi}{2}$
we get $1<(1)=\dfrac {\pi}{3}<\dfrac {2\sqrt 3}{3}$

You have used knowledge of the decimal value of $\pi$...which goes against the given instructions. :)
 
MarkFL said:
You have used knowledge of the decimal value of $\pi$...which goes against the given instructions. :)
I know you will question this, the following diagram is the proof of $3<\pi , and \,\,\sqrt 3>\dfrac {\pi}{2}$
no use the knowledge of the decimal value of $\pi$
in fact this diagram can also be used as to prove :$\sqrt 2<\dfrac {\pi}{2}<\sqrt 3$ and $\sqrt 2+\sqrt 3 >\pi$

View attachment 5490
 

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Albert said:
I know you will question this, the following diagram is the proof of $3<\pi , and \,\,\sqrt 3>\dfrac {\pi}{2}$
no use the knowledge of the decimal value of $\pi$
in fact this diagram can also be used as to prove :$\sqrt 2<\dfrac {\pi}{2}<\sqrt 3$ and $\sqrt 2+\sqrt 3 >\pi$

Nice! Before I decided there must be a way to do this without evaluating the definite integral (anemone picks problems that usually have some kind of neat twist), I did use a hexagon/circle system, but I only established the upper bound using areas...it didn't occur to me to use perimeters for the lower bound. So, I abandoned that method and looked elsewhere. :)
 
Albert said:
I know you will question this, the following diagram is the proof of $3<\pi , and \,\,\sqrt 3>\dfrac {\pi}{2}$
no use the knowledge of the decimal value of $\pi$
in fact this diagram can also be used as to prove :$\sqrt 2<\dfrac {\pi}{2}<\sqrt 3$ and $\sqrt 2+\sqrt 3 >\pi$

Albert said:
my solution:
let $y=x-4 ,$ we have :
$$$\int_{3}^{5} \frac{1}{\sqrt{-x^2+8x-12}}\,dx =2\int_{0}^{1}\dfrac{dy}{\sqrt {2^2-y^2}}=2sin^{-1}\dfrac{1}{2}=\dfrac {\pi}{3}---(1)$$$
we know $\pi>3$ and $\sqrt 3>\dfrac{\pi}{2}$
we get $1<(1)=\dfrac {\pi}{3}<\dfrac {2\sqrt 3}{3}$

Thanks Albert for your geometry approach that so effectively avoided in using the value of pi in your solution! Bravo!
 

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