Prove relation between the group of integers and a subgroup

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a relation between a subgroup of integers and the integers themselves, specifically showing that for a subgroup \(X\) of \((\mathbb{Z}, 0, +)\), there exists a natural number \(l\) such that \(X = l \cdot \mathbb{Z}\). Participants explore the implications of subgroup properties and the structure of integers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the necessity of including the neutral element in \(X\) and the implications of having both positive and negative integers in the subgroup. There are attempts to clarify the reasoning behind the choice of the smallest positive element \(l\) and its role in the proof. Some participants question the clarity of the original attempt and suggest alternative proofs that streamline the argument.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations and approaches being explored. Some participants offer guidance on the proof structure while others express confusion about specific steps in the reasoning. There is no explicit consensus yet, but productive dialogue is occurring.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of subgroup properties and the challenge of working within the constraints of integer arithmetic. The original poster's friend's attempt is described as confusing, leading to questions about the clarity of the proof steps and the assumptions made.

PhysicsRock
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Homework Statement
Let ##X \subseteq \mathbb{Z}## be a subgroup of ##(\mathbb{Z},0,+)##. Show that an ##l \in \mathbb{N}_0## exists such that ##X = l \cdot \mathbb{Z}##.
Relevant Equations
There are no other equations, so I'm just gonna state the hint that comes with the problem here. It is: In case ##\{ 0 \} \subsetneq X## choose ##l = \min(X \cap \mathbb{N})##.
So, a friend of mine has attempted a solution. Unfortunately, he's having numbers spawn out of nowhere and a lot of stuff is going on there which I can't make sense of. I'm going to write down the entire attempt.

$$
0 \in X \; \text{otherwise no subgroup since neutral element isn't included} \notag
$$

For each additional element ##x##, ##-x## has to be an element as well, to satisfy the condition of an inverse. Now let ##H_+## be the set of all elements of ##X## that are greater or equal to ##0## and likewise for ##H_-## containing all negative integers. Then ##X = H_+ \cup H_-##. Following the hint, let ##l## be the smallest number contained in ##X##. For ##H_+,H_-##, ##l \cdot h = \underbrace{h + h + h + ... + h}_{l-times}## has to be an element of the respective group too, because of closedness.

Now let ##h \in H_+##. Then ##h = l \cdot z + r## with ##r < l## (don't know where the ##r## is coming from and why it has to be less than ##l##). Since ##l## is the smallest positive number and ##r < l##, it follows that ##r = 0## and this ##x = l \cdot z \, \forall \, x \in X##. The process is analogous for ##H_-##.

Does this make sense and if not, what went wrong? Thanks everyone!
 
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PhysicsRock said:
Homework Statement:: Let ##X \subseteq \mathbb{Z}## be a subgroup of ##(\mathbb{Z},0,+)##. Show that an ##l \in \mathbb{N}_0## exists such that ##X = l \cdot \mathbb{Z}##.
Relevant Equations:: There are no other equations, so I'm just going to state the hint that comes with the problem here. It is: In case ##\{ 0 \} \subsetneq X## choose ##l = \min(X \cap \mathbb{N})##.

So, a friend of mine has attempted a solution. Unfortunately, he's having numbers spawn out of nowhere and a lot of stuff is going on there which I can't make sense of. I'm going to write down the entire attempt.

$$
0 \in X \; \text{otherwise no subgroup since neutral element isn't included} \notag
$$

For each additional element ##x##, ##-x## has to be an element as well, to satisfy the condition of an inverse. Now let ##H_+## be the set of all elements of ##X## that are greater or equal to ##0## and likewise for ##H_-## containing all negative integers. Then ##X = H_+ \cup H_-##. Following the hint, let ##l## be the smallest number contained in ##X##. For ##H_+,H_-##, ##l \cdot h = \underbrace{h + h + h + ... + h}_{l-times}## has to be an element of the respective group too, because of closedness.

Now let ##h \in H_+##. Then ##h = l \cdot z + r## with ##r < l## (don't know where the ##r## is coming from and why it has to be less than ##l##). Since ##l## is the smallest positive number and ##r < l##, it follows that ##r = 0## and this ##x = l \cdot z \, \forall \, x \in X##. The process is analogous for ##H_-##.

Does this make sense and if not, what went wrong? Thanks everyone!
It is correct. Written in a bit confusing way that suggests you didn't understand all steps, but all in all correct.

##X\subseteq \mathbb{Z}## is a subgroup. So ##0\in X## and ##X\neq \emptyset.##

If ##X=\{0\}## then ##X=0\cdot \mathbb{Z}## and we are done.

Next, we assume that ##\{0\}\subsetneq X## is a proper subgroup, i.e. ##X## contains at least one element ##x\neq 0.## With ##x\in X## we also have ##-x\in X## and either ##x## or ##-x## is positive. This means that ##X## contains a number ##x>0.## Since the natural numbers (positive integers) are bounded from below, we can choose the smallest positive ##X\ni l>0.##

We now apply the Euclidean algorithm, i.e. the ordinary division, and divide any number ##x\in X## by ##l.## Unfortunately, we are not allowed to divide ##x## by ##l## since ##\mathbb{Z}## doesn't contain all quotients. What we can do is to subtract ##l## from ##x## as long as the result is greater or equal ##l.## This is basically the long division: ##x=q\cdot l +r.## Subtract ##l## as long from ##x## as ##r\geq l,## here ##q## times, until ##r<l.## We can always perform this step such that ##0\leq r,## because we can select ##q<0## if necessary.

We now rearrange the equation: ##r=x-q\cdot l=\underbrace{x}_{\in X} - \underbrace{(\underbrace{l+l+\ldots +l}_{q\text{ times}}}_{\in X} \in X.##

However, ##X\ni r\geq 0## can only be the case if ##r=0## by the choice of ##l## as the minimal element among those in ##X##. Thus any arbitrary element ##x\in X## is of the form ##x=q\cdot l+0,## i.e. ##X=\mathbb{Z}\cdot l.##

The distinction between ##H_+## and ##H_-## isn't necessary. The Euclidean algorithm works for all integers in a way such that the remainder of consecutive subtractions are always positive. If necessary, i.e. if ##x<0,## then we perform consecutive additions instead.
 
fresh_42 said:
It is correct. Written in a bit confusing way that suggests you didn't understand all steps, but all in all correct.

##X\subseteq \mathbb{Z}## is a subgroup. So ##0\in X## and ##X\neq \emptyset.##

If ##X=\{0\}## then ##X=0\cdot \mathbb{Z}## and we are done.

Next, we assume that ##\{0\}\subsetneq X## is a proper subgroup, i.e. ##X## contains at least one element ##x\neq 0.## With ##x\in X## we also have ##-x\in X## and either ##x## or ##-x## is positive. This means that ##X## contains a number ##x>0.## Since the natural numbers (positive integers) are bounded from below, we can choose the smallest positive ##X\ni l>0.##

We now apply the Euclidean algorithm, i.e. the ordinary division, and divide any number ##x\in X## by ##l.## Unfortunately, we are not allowed to divide ##x## by ##l## since ##\mathbb{Z}## doesn't contain all quotients. What we can do is to subtract ##l## from ##x## as long as the result is greater or equal ##l.## This is basically the long division: ##x=q\cdot l +r.## Subtract ##l## as long from ##x## as ##r\geq l,## here ##q## times, until ##r<l.## We can always perform this step such that ##0\leq r,## because we can select ##q<0## if necessary.

We now rearrange the equation: ##r=x-q\cdot l=\underbrace{x}_{\in X} - \underbrace{(\underbrace{l+l+\ldots +l}_{q\text{ times}}}_{\in X} \in X.##

However, ##X\ni r\geq 0## can only be the case if ##r=0## by the choice of ##l## as the minimal element among those in ##X##. Thus any arbitrary element ##x\in X## is of the form ##x=q\cdot l+0,## i.e. ##X=\mathbb{Z}\cdot l.##

The distinction between ##H_+## and ##H_-## isn't necessary. The Euclidean algorithm works for all integers in a way such that the remainder of consecutive subtractions are always positive. If necessary, i.e. if ##x<0,## then we perform consecutive additions instead.
Thank you so much. Actually getting it explained is always super helpful. All I got were the equations. My friend didn't explain his steps and his handwriting was hard to read anyway, so I had a very hard time figuring out what each step meant. But this really does explain everything nicely. Thank you again :)
 
Why not simply:

Let ##l## be the least positive element in ##X##. By induction ##l\mathbb Z \subseteq X##.

If there exists positive ##k \in X## but ##k \notin l\mathbb Z## then ##nl < k < (n+1)l## for some ##n##. Hence ##k -nl \in X## with ##0< k -nl < l##. Contradiction.
 
PeroK said:
Why not simply:

Let ##l## be the least positive element in ##X##. By induction ##l\mathbb Z \subseteq X##.

If there exists positive ##k \in X## but ##k \notin l\mathbb Z## then ##nl < k < (n+1)l## for some ##n##. Hence ##k -nl \in X## with ##0< k -nl < l##. Contradiction.
This is the identical proof just without all the technical details and references to the group axioms and the fact that Euclidean rings are principal ideal domains. Whether you write ##k=nl+r## or ##x=ql+r## isn't really a difference.
 
fresh_42 said:
This is the identical proof just without all the technical details and references to the group axioms and the fact that Euclidean rings are principal ideal domains. Whether you write ##k=nl+r## or ##x=ql+r## isn't really a difference.
It seems to me that the OP may be too focused on the details and not yet able to see the outline of a proof for himself. The details rarely sort themselves out without my knowing what I'm trying to do.

I think it's important for the OP to recognise the common proof ideas here, as well as follow a complete step by step solution.
 
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Choosing a minimal element (##l##) from a subset of ##\mathbb{N}## and using the Euclidean division to find a smaller element (##r##) which leads to either a contradiction or to ##r=0## is a standard technique.

Locking ##k## up between ##nl## and ##(n+1)l## not so much.
 

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