Prove that a function has a fixed point

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that a continuous function \( F \) from the interval \([a,b]\) onto itself has a fixed point within that interval. Participants explore various approaches to construct a mathematical proof, referencing concepts such as the intermediate value theorem and the behavior of the function \( g(x) = x - F(x) \).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests visualizing the problem by drawing the product space \([a,b] \times [a,b]\) and noting that any line passing through the image should intersect the diagonal, indicating a fixed point.
  • Another participant proposes using the intermediate value theorem (IVT) to show that if \( g(a) \leq 0 \) and \( g(b) \geq 0 \), then there exists some \( c \in [a,b] \) such that \( g(c) = 0 \).
  • Some participants discuss the implications of assuming \( g(x) \) is either positive or negative and explore the consequences of these assumptions on the existence of a fixed point.
  • One participant asserts that since \( F \) is onto, there exist points \( c \) and \( e \) such that \( F(c) = b \) and \( F(e) = a \), leading to the conclusion that \( g(c) < 0 \) and \( g(e) > 0 \).
  • Another participant points out that the proof can still hold if \( F \) is merely continuous, not necessarily onto, and emphasizes the importance of showing that \( g(a) \) and \( g(b) \) cannot both be of the same sign.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the use of the intermediate value theorem and the function \( g(x) = x - F(x) \) as a basis for the proof. However, there is some disagreement regarding the necessity of \( F \) being onto and the clarity of the expressions used in the proof.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the proper formulation of their arguments and the implications of their assumptions regarding the continuity and onto properties of the function \( F \). There are also unresolved questions about the completeness and clarity of the proposed proofs.

Amer
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Let F be a continuous function from [a,b] onto [a,b] prove that F has a fixed point
in the interval [a,b]

it is clear for me by drawing the product of [a,b]x[a,b] any line which pass through all the image should intersect with the diagonal but i can't make a mathematical proof.

I tried by looking at
x-f(x) and suppose it is a positive or negative function and reach a contradiction

any hints
 
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You should use the intermediate value theorem saying that if g(a) <= 0 and g(b) >= 0 where g is some continuous function on [a, b], then g(c) = 0 for some c ∈ [a, b]. Looking at your picture, can you construct such a function g from F and the diagonal?

---------- Post added at 22:50 ---------- Previous post was at 22:46 ----------

Amer said:
I tried by looking at x-f(x) and suppose it is a positive or negative function and reach a contradiction
There is no need to suppose. Since a ≤ f(x) ≤ b for all x ∈ [a, b] it is clear that x - f(x) changes sign on [a, b].
 
what about this
suppose that F dose not intersect with the diagonal that means x- F(x) is either positive or negative
let g(x) = x - F(x)
suppose that it is positive g(a) = a - F(a)

0 ≤ a- F(a)
F(a) ≤ a
F(a) = a fixed point

now taking other case, is it ok ? thanks again
 
Last edited:
Amer said:
suppose that F dose not intersect with the diagonal that means x- F(x) is either positive or negative
let g(x) = x - F(x)
suppose that it is positive g(a) = a - F(a)
Do you mean, "Suppose that g(a) = a - F(a) is positive"?

Amer said:
0 ≤ a- F(a)
"Positive" means strictly greater than zero.

Amer said:
now taking other case
What do you mean by this?

I think you have the right idea, but it has to be expressed properly.
 
ok I come up with the complete proof
let g(x) = x - F(x)
since F(x) is onto there exist c in [a,b] such that F(c) = b, if c=b then we are finished
if c<b then g(c) = c - F(c) = c- b < 0

same there exist e in [a,b] such that F(e) = a, if e=a we are finished if e> a

g(e) = e - F(e) = e - a > 0

since g(x) is continuous function by intermediate theorem g(x) has a zero in [a,b]
 
This is correct; however, F: [a, b] -> [a, b] has a fixpoint even if it is not onto, just continuous. Why didn't you use the hint given above?
Evgeny.Makarov said:
Since a ≤ f(x) ≤ b for all x ∈ [a, b] it is clear that x - f(x) changes sign on [a, b].
We have g(a) = a - f(a) ≤ 0 and g(b) = b - f(b) ≥ 0. Then apply the IVT.
 
Amer said:
Let F be a continuous function from [a,b] onto [a,b] prove that F has a fixed point
in the interval [a,b]

it is clear for me by drawing the product of [a,b]x[a,b] any line which pass through all the image should intersect with the diagonal but i can't make a mathematical proof.

I tried by looking at
x-f(x) and suppose it is a positive or negative function and reach a contradiction

any hints

As wıth other posts consıder \(g(x)=x-f(x)\). If \(g(a)g(b) \le 0\) you are done (eıther usıng the ıntermedıate value theorem of usıng the bısectıon method whıch converges to a zero of a contınuous functıon on an ınterval wıth thıs property or trıvıally ıf zero). So you need only show that \(g(a)\) and \(g(b)\) cannot both be of the same sıgn.

CB
 
Last edited:
Evgeny.Makarov said:
This is correct; however, F: [a, b] -> [a, b] has a fixpoint even if it is not onto, just continuous. Why didn't you use the hint given above?We have g(a) = a - f(a) ≤ 0 and g(b) = b - f(b) ≥ 0. Then apply the IVT.

if it is just continuous ?
I used the hint, maybe not
 

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