Prove that factorial n is less than or equal to n raised to n

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the inequality \( n! \leqslant n^n \) for all natural numbers \( n \) and exploring its implications, particularly in relation to the Squeeze theorem and limits involving factorials. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and proof techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof for \( n! \leqslant n^n \) by comparing terms in the factorial expansion to \( n \) raised to the power of \( n \).
  • Another participant confirms the correctness of the initial proof.
  • A subsequent participant outlines a plan to apply the Squeeze theorem, stating that they need to prove \( (n!)^{1/n^2} \leqslant (n^n)^{1/n^2} \) based on the previously established inequality.
  • This participant discusses two cases: one where \( n! = n^n \) and another where \( n! < n^n \), applying the \( n^{\text{th}} \) root theorem to establish the desired inequality.
  • A later reply suggests that while the reasoning is sound, the presentation could be more organized and clarifies the implications being used in the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the initial proof of \( n! \leqslant n^n \), but there is a lack of consensus on the clarity and organization of the subsequent reasoning regarding the Squeeze theorem.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the need for clearer organization in the presentation of the proofs and implications, indicating that the logical flow could be improved for better understanding.

issacnewton
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HelloI wish to prove that
\[ \forall\;n\in \mathbb{N}\; n! \leqslant n^n \]
First we let \(n\) be arbitrary. Now I first write \( n! \) as \( n\cdot(n-1)\cdot(n-2)\cdots 3\cdot 2\cdot 1\).
Now we see that
\[ n \geqslant (n-1)\;; n \geqslant (n-2)\;\ldots ;n \geqslant n- (n-1) \]
So we get
\[ n\cdot(n-1)\cdot(n-2)\cdots 3\cdot 2\cdot 1 \leqslant \underbrace{n\cdot n\cdot n\cdots n}_\text{n times} \]
\[ \Rightarrow n! \leqslant n^n \]
Since \(n\) is arbitrary, the result is generally true. I want to use this result to find the limit of \( (n!)^{1/n^2 } \)
using the Squeeze theorem. So is my proof correct ?
Thanks
 
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IssacNewton said:
HelloI wish to prove that
\[ \forall\;n\in \mathbb{N}\; n! \leqslant n^n \]
First we let \(n\) be arbitrary. Now I first write \( n! \) as \( n\cdot(n-1)\cdot(n-2)\cdots 3\cdot 2\cdot 1\).
Now we see that
\[ n \geqslant (n-1)\;; n \geqslant (n-2)\;\ldots ;n \geqslant n- (n-1) \]
So we get
\[ n\cdot(n-1)\cdot(n-2)\cdots 3\cdot 2\cdot 1 \leqslant \underbrace{n\cdot n\cdot n\cdots n}_\text{n times} \]
\[ \Rightarrow n! \leqslant n^n \]
Since \(n\) is arbitrary, the result is generally true. I want to use this result to find the limit of \( (n!)^{1/n^2 } \)
using the Squeeze theorem. So is my proof correct ?
Thanks

Yup , it is correct .
 
Thanks zaid.
Now to use squeeze theorem, one of the things I need to prove is that \( (n!)^{1/n^2} \leqslant (n^n)^{1/n^2} \). Now here is an idea how I plan to go about doing that.
I have already proven a theorem that if \( a>0 \) and \(b>0\) and \(n\in\mathbb{N} \), we have \( a< b \) if and only if \( a^n < b^n \). Since \( n! \leqslant n^n \) for all \(n\in\mathbb{N} \), we can divide this in two cases. In case 1 , where \( n! = n^n \),
taking \( 1/n^2 \) root of both the sides, we get \( (n!)^{1/n^2} = (n^n)^{1/n^2} \).
In case 2, where \( n! < n^n \), I will let \( a = (n!)^{1/n^2}\) and \( b = (n^n)^{1/n^2} \). Now since both \( n! \) and \( n^n \) are positive, by \( n^{\mbox{th}} \) root theorem, we have \( a = (n!)^{1/n^2} > 0 \) and
\( b = (n^n)^{1/n^2} > 0 \). The case 2 says that \( n! < n^n \), which is \( a^{n^2} < b^{n^2} \). Now since \( n\in\mathbb{N} \), we have \( n^2 \in\mathbb{N} \). So using the theorem I proved, we get \( a<b\) which is \( (n!)^{1/n^2} < (n^n)^{1/n^2} \). So combining the two cases, I get
\[ (n!)^{1/n^2} \leqslant (n^n)^{1/n^2} \].

Does this sound good ?

thanks
 
It is clear that you know what you are doing but you need to make things a little be more organized . For example , it is not clear from the context which implication you are choosing ! .

Let $$ a,b>0 $$ , $$a<b \iff a^{n^2}<b^{n^2}$$ . so you are choosing the converse $$ a^{n^2}<b^{n^2} \implies a< b $$ then by letting $$a= (n!)^{\frac{1}{n^2}} ,b= (n^n)^{\frac{1}{n^2}}$$ , we conclude that that $$ n! < n^n \implies (n!)^{\frac{1}{n^2}} < (n^n)^{\frac{1}{n^2}}$$ .Since you already proved the left hand side we are done .
 
Thanks...I am on right track... (Muscle)
 

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