MHB Proving $a^b+b^a > 1$ for Positive Real $a,b$

  • Thread starter Thread starter anemone
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Positive
AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on proving the inequality \( a^b + b^a > 1 \) for positive real numbers \( a \) and \( b \). Participants analyze various cases, particularly when both \( a \) and \( b \) are less than 1, and demonstrate that the inequality holds under these conditions. A detailed proof is provided, showing that if either \( a \) or \( b \) exceeds 1, the inequality is satisfied, and if both are in the interval (0,1), the inequality can be established through careful analysis of their behavior. The conversation concludes with appreciation for the elegant proof presented.
anemone
Gold Member
MHB
POTW Director
Messages
3,851
Reaction score
115
If $a$ and $b$ are positive real numbers, show that $a^b+b^a>1$.
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
anemone said:
If $a$ and $b$ are positive real numbers, show that $a^b+b^a>1$.
$a^b>0,b^a>0 $ are the roots of the following equation :
$(x-a^b)(x-b^a)=0$
or $x^2-x(a^b+b^a)+a^bb^a=0$
let x=1, we have:
$1-(a^b+b^a)+a^bb^a=0$
$\therefore 1+a^bb^a=(a^b+b^a), \,\, and \,\, the\,\, proof \,\,is \,\, done$
 
I don't think that is a correct argument.

For example, $2$ and $3$ are roots of the equation $(x - 2)(x - 3) = x^2 - 5x + 6$ but if one sets $x = 1$ then $1 - 5 + 6 = 0$, a false equality.
 
mathbalarka said:
I don't think that is a correct argument.

For example, $2$ and $3$ are roots of the equation $(x - 2)(x - 3) = x^2 - 5x + 6$ but if one sets $x = 1$ then $1 - 5 + 6 = 0$, a false equality.
note the values of :$a^b\, and \,\,\, b^a$ are variables ,not fixed
 
I though that didn't matter? Your equality was

$$a^b + b^a = 1 + a^b b^a$$

Which is clearly false if, say, $a = 3$ and $b = 4$.
 
mathbalarka said:
I though that didn't matter? Your equality was

$$a^b + b^a = 1 + a^b b^a$$

Which is clearly false if, say, $a = 3$ and $b = 4$.
in fact if a=0 or b=0 then :
$a^b+b^a= 1$
if we want to find $a^b+b^a>100$
a,b also can be found
now for all value of a>0 ,and b>0
we want to find the value of k with
$a^b+b^a>k$
if $a--->0^+ ,or\,\, b--->0^+$
we may cnclude:$a^b+b^a>1$
 
Last edited:
let $g(t)=t^2-(a^b+b^a)t+(a^bb^a)$
here $ a>0 ,\, b>0$
$g(1)=1-(a^b+b^a)+a^bb^a$
now let $g(1)=0$
we have:$1-(a^b+b^a)+a^bb^a=0---(*)$
this time we will find $a,\,and \,\,b$ satisfying (*)
this can be considered as
a linear equation :$1-y+x=0$
here $y=a^b+b^a ,\,\, x=a^bb^a$
so $y=1+x$
$\therefore y=a^b+b^a=1+a^bb^a>1$
and the proof is finished
 
Last edited:
Albert said:
let $g(t)=t^2-(a^b+b^a)t+(a^bb^a)$
here $ a>0 ,\, b>0$
$g(1)=1-(a^b+b^a)+a^bb^a$
now let $g(1)=0$
we have:$1-(a^b+b^a)+a^bb^a=0---(*)$
this time we will find $a,\,and \,\,b$ satisfying (*)
this can be considered as
a linear equation :$1-y+x=0$
here $y=a^b+b^a ,\,\, x=a^bb^a$
so $y=1+x$
$\therefore y=a^b+b^a=1+a^bb^a>1$
and the proof is finished

not correct because g(1) = 0 is wrong pressumption
 
kaliprasad said:
not correct because g(1) = 0 is wrong pressumption
are you sure we can not find solutions
$(a^b,b^a)$ satisfying :
$1-(a^b+b^a)+a^bb^a=0\,\, ?$
 
  • #10
anemone said:
If $a$ and $b$ are positive real numbers, show that $a^b+b^a>1$.
[sp]First, I want to prove the inequality $x^x > 1-\sqrt x$, for $0<x<1.$ Taking logs, this is equivalent to $x\ln x > \ln(1-\sqrt x).$

Let $f(x) = x\ln x - \ln(1-\sqrt x).$ Then $f(x)\to0$ as $x\searrow0$. So to prove the inequality it will be enough to show that $f'(x)>0$ for $0<x<1.$ But $f'(x) = 1+\ln x + \dfrac1{2\sqrt x(1-\sqrt x)} > 1+\ln x + \dfrac1{2\sqrt x}$, because $\frac 1{1 - \sqrt x} > 1.$ So it will be enough to show that $g(x)>0$, where $g(x) = 1+\ln x + \dfrac1{2\sqrt x}$.

Differentiating again, $$g'(x) = \frac1x - \frac1{4x^{3/2}},$$ which has a single zero when $x = \frac1{16}$. This turning point is a local minimum (as you can see by differentiating again), and $g\bigl(\frac1{16}\bigr) = 3-4\ln2 \approx 0.2274 > 0$. It follows that $g(x)>0$ throughout the interval $(0,1)$, as required. Working backwards, this means that the inequality $x^x > 1-\sqrt x\;\; (0<x<1)$ is proved.

Now we can look at the inequality $a^b + b^a > 1.$ It is obviously satisfied if either $a$ or $b$ is greater than $1$, so we may assume that they are both less than $1$. Next, notice that when $a,b \in (0,1)$, $a^b$ increases when $a$ increases, and it decreases when $b$ increases.

Suppose that $b < \frac12.$ Then $b^a > a^a > 1-a^{1/ 2}$ (by the above inequality). But $a^{1/ 2} < a^b$, and so $1-a^{1/ 2} > 1-a^b.$ Thus $b^a > 1-a^b$, so that the inequality $a^b+b^a >1$ is proved.

The same argument shows that the inequality holds when $a < \frac12.$ So we only have to look at the case when both $a$ and $b$ lie between $\frac12$ and $1$. But then $a^b+b^a > a+b >1.$ That completes the proof.[/sp]
 
  • #11
if a or b are above 1 we are done,.so let us assume both < 1
by Bernoulli Inequality -- from Wolfram MathWorld we have$(1+x)^n \ge 1+nx$so $(1+\dfrac{a}{b})^{\dfrac{1}{a}} \ge 1+\dfrac{1}{b}$so $(1+\dfrac{a}{b})^{\dfrac{1}{a}} \gt \dfrac{1}{b}$or $1+\dfrac{a}{b} \gt (\dfrac{1}{b})^a$or $\dfrac{a+b}{b} \gt (\dfrac{1}{b})^a$or $\dfrac{b}{a+b} \lt b^a$similarly

$\dfrac{a}{a+b} \lt a^b$
Adding, we get $1 \lt a^b + b^a$

or $a^b+b^a \gt 1$
 
Last edited:
  • #12
kaliprasad said:
if a or b are above 1 we are done,.so let us assume both < 1
by Bernoulli Inequality -- from Wolfram MathWorld we have$(1+x)^n \ge 1+nx$so $(1+\dfrac{a}{b})^{\dfrac{1}{a}} \ge 1+\dfrac{1}{b}$so $(1+\dfrac{a}{b})^{\dfrac{1}{a}} \gt \dfrac{1}{b}$or $1+\dfrac{a}{b} \gt (\dfrac{1}{b})^a$or $\dfrac{a+b}{b} \gt (\dfrac{1}{b})^a$or $\dfrac{b}{a+b} \gt b^a$similarly

$\dfrac{a}{a+b} \gt a^b$
Adding, we get $1 \lt a^b + b^a$

or $a^b+b^a \gt 1$
Nice proof!
 
  • #13
kaliprasad said:
or $\dfrac{a+b}{b} \gt (\dfrac{1}{b})^a$

or $\dfrac{b}{a+b} \gt b^a$

How is that?
 
  • #14
I like Serena said:
How is that?
Just a typo – a couple of the inequality signs are the wrong way round.
 
  • #15
I like Serena said:
How is that?

I am sorry . There were typo Thanks for pointing. I have corrected the same.
 
Last edited:
  • #16
Opalg said:
[sp]First, I want to prove the inequality $x^x > 1-\sqrt x$, for $0<x<1.$ Taking logs, this is equivalent to $x\ln x > \ln(1-\sqrt x).$

Let $f(x) = x\ln x - \ln(1-\sqrt x).$ Then $f(x)\to0$ as $x\searrow0$. So to prove the inequality it will be enough to show that $f'(x)>0$ for $0<x<1.$ But $f'(x) = 1+\ln x + \dfrac1{2\sqrt x(1-\sqrt x)} > 1+\ln x + \dfrac1{2\sqrt x}$, because $\frac 1{1 - \sqrt x} > 1.$ So it will be enough to show that $g(x)>0$, where $g(x) = 1+\ln x + \dfrac1{2\sqrt x}$.

Differentiating again, $$g'(x) = \frac1x - \frac1{4x^{3/2}},$$ which has a single zero when $x = \frac1{16}$. This turning point is a local minimum (as you can see by differentiating again), and $g\bigl(\frac1{16}\bigr) = 3-4\ln2 \approx 0.2274 > 0$. It follows that $g(x)>0$ throughout the interval $(0,1)$, as required. Working backwards, this means that the inequality $x^x > 1-\sqrt x\;\; (0<x<1)$ is proved.

Now we can look at the inequality $a^b + b^a > 1.$ It is obviously satisfied if either $a$ or $b$ is greater than $1$, so we may assume that they are both less than $1$. Next, notice that when $a,b \in (0,1)$, $a^b$ increases when $a$ increases, and it decreases when $b$ increases.

Suppose that $b < \frac12.$ Then $b^a > a^a > 1-a^{1/ 2}$ (by the above inequality). But $a^{1/ 2} < a^b$, and so $1-a^{1/ 2} > 1-a^b.$ Thus $b^a > 1-a^b$, so that the inequality $a^b+b^a >1$ is proved.

The same argument shows that the inequality holds when $a < \frac12.$ So we only have to look at the case when both $a$ and $b$ lie between $\frac12$ and $1$. But then $a^b+b^a > a+b >1.$ That completes the proof.[/sp]

Thanks for participating, Opalg! Thanks for giving us such a thorough proof and I appreciate that!:)
kaliprasad said:
if a or b are above 1 we are done,.so let us assume both < 1
by Bernoulli Inequality -- from Wolfram MathWorld we have$(1+x)^n \ge 1+nx$so $(1+\dfrac{a}{b})^{\dfrac{1}{a}} \ge 1+\dfrac{1}{b}$so $(1+\dfrac{a}{b})^{\dfrac{1}{a}} \gt \dfrac{1}{b}$or $1+\dfrac{a}{b} \gt (\dfrac{1}{b})^a$or $\dfrac{a+b}{b} \gt (\dfrac{1}{b})^a$or $\dfrac{b}{a+b} \lt b^a$similarly

$\dfrac{a}{a+b} \lt a^b$
Adding, we get $1 \lt a^b + b^a$

or $a^b+b^a \gt 1$

Hey kaliprasad,

This is one very elegant proof, well done and thanks for participating!
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Back
Top