Proving a sum of three squared terms, cyclic in #a,b,c#, is equal to 1

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that a sum of three squared terms, cyclic in variables a, b, and c, equals 1 under the condition that a + b + c = 0. Participants are exploring algebraic manipulations and substitutions to simplify the expressions involved.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants attempt to manipulate the given equation using substitutions, such as a = -(b+c), and explore the implications of this substitution on the left-hand side of the equation.
  • Others suggest using algebraic identities, like expanding (a+b+c)², to find relationships between the terms.
  • There are questions regarding the completeness of the problem statement, with some participants noting that certain terms do not seem to emerge from the provided equations.
  • Several participants express uncertainty about their approaches and seek hints or guidance to progress further.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various attempts to simplify the problem and explore different algebraic strategies. Some participants have provided insights that may help others, but there is no explicit consensus on a single approach or solution yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants have noted potential missing information in the problem statement and are working under the assumption that a + b + c = 0 is the primary constraint. There is also a recognition of the complexity involved in the algebraic manipulations required to prove the statement.

brotherbobby
Messages
766
Reaction score
171
Homework Statement
If ##a+b+c=0##, show that ##\boxed{\frac{a^2}{2a^2+bc}+\frac{b^2}{2b^2+ca}+\frac{c^2}{2c^2+ab}=1}##
Relevant Equations
1. If ##a+b+c=0##, then ##a^2+2ab+b^2=c^2##
2. If ##a+b+c=0##, then ##a^2+b^2+c^2=-2(ab+bc+ca)## (not sure how useful this would be)
1643111116160.png
Problem statement :
I copy and paste the statement of the problem from the text.
(Given ##\boldsymbol{a+b+c=0}##)

Attempt : I am afraid I couldn't make any meaningful progress. With ##a = -(b+c)##, I substituted for ##a## in the whole of the L.H.S, both numerators and denominators. I multiplied the denominators and multiplied the numerators by the "other" denominators, much as we would do for the case ##\dfrac{A}{X}+\dfrac{B}{Y}+\dfrac{C}{Z} = \dfrac{AYZ+BZX+CXY}{XYZ}##. That gave me three terms with sizable numbers of terms in the numerator and denominator, ranging from ##b^6\rightarrow c^6## and terms of decreasing and increasing powers of ##b,c## respectively in them. It was clumsy and tedious, not to mention that I didn't obtain the answer 1 due to what must be an error somewhere. I am certain there must be a better way to do the problem.

Request : Not having done my fair share, I would be happy for the barest of hints in the right direction to get me going.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Looks like ##(a+b+c)^2=a^2+b^2+c^2+2ab+2ac+2bc## could be of help. Those problems usually need a tricky algebraic rephrasing, e.g. by considering ##(a+1)(b+1)(c+1)## instead.
 
If I see that 1+1-2=0 and then the first term (your A/X) does not exist, it seems to me you haven' t given us the complete problem statement.

## \ ##
 
Last edited:
And I don' see 6th powers emerging ?
 
BvU said:
If I see that 1+1-2=0 and then the first term ( your X) does not exist, it seems to me you haven' t given us the complete problem statement.

## \ ##

Please see Problem 16 below taken from the text.

1643195186327.png


BvU said:
And I don' see 6th powers emerging ?

1643195281713.png


I don't know how clear it is. You will see terms like ##-4b^6## and ##-2c^6## in the last line.
 
brotherbobby said:
Homework Statement:: If ##a+b+c=0##, show that ##\boxed{\frac{a^2}{2a^2+bc}+\frac{b^2}{2b^2+ca}+\frac{c^2}{2c^2+ab}=1}##
Relevant Equations:: 1. If ##a+b+c=0##, then ##a^2+2ab+b^2=c^2##
2. If ##a+b+c=0##, then ##a^2+b^2+c^2=-2(ab+bc+ca)## (not sure how useful this would be)

View attachment 296002Problem statement : I copy and paste the statement of the problem from the text.
(Given ##\boldsymbol{a+b+c=0}##)

Attempt : I am afraid I couldn't make any meaningful progress. With ##a = -(b+c)##, I substituted for ##a## in the whole of the L.H.S, both numerators and denominators. I multiplied the denominators and multiplied the numerators by the "other" denominators, much as we would do for the case ##\dfrac{A}{X}+\dfrac{B}{Y}+\dfrac{C}{Z} = \dfrac{AYZ+BZX+CXY}{XYZ}##. That gave me three terms with sizable numbers of terms in the numerator and denominator, ranging from ##b^6\rightarrow c^6## and terms of decreasing and increasing powers of ##b,c## respectively in them. It was clumsy and tedious, not to mention that I didn't obtain the answer 1 due to what must be an error somewhere. I am certain there must be a better way to do the problem.

Request : Not having done my fair share, I would be happy for the barest of hints in the right direction to get me going.
Well, that's just plain nasty. I'm only commenting to follow.
 
brotherbobby said:
Please see Problem 16 below taken from the text.

View attachment 296041
View attachment 296042

I don't know how clear it is. You will see terms like ##-4b^6## and ##-2c^6## in the last line.
I think you have to be a bit smarter. I took ##c = -(a + b)##. And took the third term over to the RHS. I.e. show that $$A + B = 1 - C$$It then looked easier to invert the two fractions and show that $$\frac{1}{A + B} = \frac 1 {1-C}$$That got rid of some factors and the rest was not too bad.

I can't see a quick and easy way to do it, although there must be one.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: valenumr
PeroK said:
I think you have to be a bit smarter. I took ##c = -(a + b)##. And took the third term over to the RHS. I.e. show that $$A + B = 1 - C$$It then looked easier to invert the two fractions and show that $$\frac{1}{A + B} = \frac 1 {1-C}$$That got rid of some factors and the rest was not too bad.

I can't see a quick and easy way to do it, although there must be one.
It almost seems like the pattern of the equation suggests a "trick".
 
brotherbobby said:
I don't know how clear it is. You will see terms like ##-4b^6## and ##-2c^6## in the last line.
Ah, it's because of the substitution of ##a##, is suppose

What about ##(a,b,c)=(1,1,-2) ## that has ##a+b+c=0## but no ##a^2 \over 2a^2+bc## as far as I can tell ?

I must be wrong, because here it gets a result of ##1##, too !

Anyway,
brotherbobby said:
Not having done my fair share
I'd say you definitely have done your fair share !

##\ ##

My path of least resistance was to work out your ##AYZ+BZX+CXY=XYZ## starting with the LHS :$$\begin{align*}
&a^2(2b^2+ca)(2c^2+ab)+b^2(2a^2+bc)(2c^2+ab)+c^2(2a^2+bc)(2b^2+ca)\quad=\\
&a^2(4b^2c^2+2b^3a+2c^3a+a^bc) \quad+\\
&b^2(4a^2c^2+2a^3b+2c^3b+ab^2c)+\quad\\
&c^2(4a^2b^2+2a^3c+2b^3c+abc^2)\qquad=\\
&12a^2b^2c^2+4b^3a^3+4c^3a^3+4c^3b^3+a^4bc+b^4ac+c^4ab\end{align*}
$$and for the RHS: XYZ=$$\begin{align*}
&(2a^2+bc)(2b^2+ca)(2c^2+ab)\quad=\\
&(2a^2+bc)(4b^2c^2+2c^3a+2b^3a+a^2bc)\quad=\\
&8a^2b^2c^2 + 4c^3a^3 + 4b^3a^3 + 2a^4bc\quad + \\
&\qquad 4b^3c^3 + 2abc^4 + 2b^4ac + a^2b^2c^2\end{align*}
$$Remove equal terms left and right and collect to get LHS=RHS##\Leftrightarrow## $$
\begin{align*}
3a^2b^2c^2 &=a^4bc+b^4ac+c^4ab\\
3abc&=a^3+b^3+c^3
\end{align*}
$$now it seems a good time to substitute ##a=-(b+c)\Rightarrow a^3 = -(b^3+3b^2c+3bc^2+c^3) ## :$$
\begin{align*}
-3(b+c)bc &\stackrel{?}{=} -(b+c)^3 +b^3+c^3 \\

-3b^2c-3bc^2 &\stackrel{?}{=} -3b^2c-3bc^2
\end{align*}$$which concludes things.

But it's brute force and dumb work, so I sure look forward to seeing the quickest way !

Nevertheless, nice exercise (apart from the ##(1,1,-2)#3 and such :smile: ) !

##\ ##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK
  • #10
Here's an idea. Still messy, but the best I can do. All of these steps are backwards implications (or "enough to show"):
$$\frac{a^2}{2a^2 +bc} + \frac{b^2}{2b^2 +ac} = \frac{c^2 + ab}{2c^2 +ab}$$Now invert both sides:
$$\Leftarrow \ \frac{(2a^2 +bc)(2b^2 + ac)}{a^2(2b^2 +ac) + b^2(2b^2 +bc)} = \frac{2c^2 + ab}{c^2 +ab}$$$$\Leftarrow \ \frac{4a^2b^2 + 2c(a^3 + b^3) + abc^2}{4a^2b^2 + c(a^3 + b^3)} = 1 + \frac{c^2}{c^2 +ab}$$$$\Leftarrow \ 1 + \frac{c(a^3 + b^3) + abc^2}{4a^2b^2 + c(a^3 + b^3)} = 1 + \frac{c^2}{c^2 +ab}$$Cancel the ##1## and invert again!
$$\Leftarrow \ \frac{4a^2b^2 + c(a^3 + b^3)}{c(a^3 + b^3) + abc^2} = \frac{c^2 +ab}{c^2}$$$$\Leftarrow \ 1 + \frac{ab(4ab - c^2)}{c(a^3 + b^3) + abc^2} = 1 + \frac{ab}{c^2}$$$$\Leftarrow \ \frac{(4ab - c^2)}{c(a^3 + b^3) + abc^2} = \frac{1}{c^2}$$$$\Leftarrow \ c(4ab - c^2)= a^3 + b^3 + abc$$And, finally, we set ##c = -(a + b)## to confirm that last equality
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BvU
  • #11
PeroK said:
I think you have to be a bit smarter. I took ##c = -(a + b)##. And took the third term over to the RHS. I.e. show that $$A + B = 1 - C$$It then looked easier to invert the two fractions and show that $$\frac{1}{A + B} = \frac 1 {1-C}$$That got rid of some factors and the rest was not too bad.

I can't see a quick and easy way to do it, although there must be one.
I see now. It looks much nicer substituting for c = (-a -b) in all the denominators and factoring them.
 
  • #12
I have bad news. I have been trying to splve using @PeroK 's solution earlier above (post #7). I used ##c=-(a+b)## on both sides and reduced both L.H.S and R.H.S exactly as asked but am stuck.

Attempt : I present my attempt below. I hope it's readable.

1643388764725.png


A help at the last step would be welcome.
 
  • Sad
Likes   Reactions: PeroK
  • #13
See post #10, where I did some fancy footwork to simplify the two sides!
 
  • #14
PeroK said:
See post #10, where I did some fancy footwork to simplify the two sides!
Yes @PeroK - I was trying not to see it and do it myself. I am afraid that I am now forced to take more of your help.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK
  • #15
brotherbobby said:
Yes @PeroK - I was trying not to see it and do it myself. I am afraid that I am now forced to take more of your help.
I only substituted for c in the denominators, and then factored those denominators. It resulted in three common factors, so it became really basic algebra after that, something like (2a² + b), (2b² + a), and (a - b) as factors, IIRC. I did later substitute c² as a late step before expanding everything else to show both sides were equal. It was only like five or six steps, and the expansion had cubic terms.

Quick edit: I'm just going from memory, but I don't think now that any factors had a square term, actually I'm pretty certain, so just ignore the squares.
 
  • #16
Ok. I would like to "close" this thread by doing the problem in an elegant manner. While @PeroK 's method in post #10 above did the job, a look through websites has told me that there is an elegant method to solve the problem. Additionally, I will post a second problem which can be solved by the same technique.

Original problem statement : If ##a+b+c=0##, show that $$\boxed{\frac{a^2}{2a^2+bc}+\frac{b^2}{2b^2+ca}+\frac{c^2}{2c^2+ab}=1}$$

Attempt :


Since ##a+b+c=0##, anyone of the variables is equal to "negative" of the sum of the other two.

##\begin{equation*}
\begin{split}
\text{L.H.S}& = \frac{a^2}{2a^2+bc}+\frac{b^2}{2b^2+ca}+\frac{c^2}{2c^2+ab}\\
& = \frac{a^2}{a^2-a(b+c)+bc}+\frac{b^2}{b^2-b(c+a)+ca}+\frac{c^2}{c^2-c(a+b)+ab}\\
& = \frac{a^2}{a^2-ab-ac+bc}+\frac{b^2}{b^2-bc-ab+ca)}+\frac{c^2}{c^2-ca-bc+ab}\\
& = -\left[\frac{a^2}{(a-b)(c-a)}+-\frac{b^2}{(a-b)(b-c)}+-\frac{c^2}{(b-c)(c-a)}\right]\\
& = - \left[\frac{a^2(b-c)+b^2(c-a)+c^2(a-b)}{(a-b)(c-a)(c-a)}\right]^{\mathbf{\Large *}}\\
& = \boxed{1}
\end{split}
\end{equation*}##

##\mathbf{\Large{{}^*}}## One of a series of results we have been familiar from school, which I copy and paste below. Of course they can be derived. Our equation of interest is the second in the list.

1644326163312.png
Problem Statement (New) : If ##a+b+c=0##, show that ##\dfrac{1}{2a^2+bc}+\dfrac{1}{2b^2+ca}+\dfrac{1}{2c^2+ab}=0##

Solution : It can be solved via the same method as above. The numerator can be shown to vanish.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
  • #17
Apologies if this repeats what others have said, but in terms I hope makes the calculation look less heavy. And apologies for being so late - but you are asked (#5) to shew this result, not to show it, which shows the question was first asked more than a century ago.

The ∑ notation for symmetric products economises somewhat the calculation and writing out the denominator:

##D = 8a^2b^2c^2 + 4∑a^3b^3 +2∑a^4bc + a^2b^2c^2##

##= 9(abc)^2 + 4∑(ab)^3 +2∑a^4bc ##. .

For the numerator we have more economy:

##N = ∑a^2(2b^2 + ac)(2c^2 + ab)##

##= ∑4abc + 2∑a^3(b^3 + c^3) + ∑a^4bc##

##= 12(abc)^2 + 4∑(ab)^3 + ∑a^4bc##

(You have to be careful about the numerical coefficients this type of calculation.)

N/D = 1 is (N - D) = 0

We have from the above

N - D = ##3(abc)^2 - Σa^4bc##

This has factor ##abc## and so we are left to show that a factor of the rest
##3abc - Σa^3##
is ##Σa = 0## which does not look very difficult though hardly obvious.

Write it out

##3abc - (a^3 + b^3 + c^3)##

##= 3abc - [ a^3 +b^3 - (a + b)^3]##

##= 3abc - [a^3 + b^3 - (a^3 + 3a^2b +3ab^2 +b^3)]##

## = 3( abc + a^2b + ab^2)##

## = 3ab(c + a + b) ##

as required.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
8K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
855