Proving Conjectures About the Binet Formula for Q(\sqrt{k})

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around conjectures related to the Binet formula for the field extension Q(√k), specifically focusing on the conditions under which the formula produces integers and its relation to recurrence sequences. The scope includes theoretical exploration of mathematical properties and conjectures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 introduces two conjectures regarding the Binet formula B(n) and its integer outputs based on the congruence condition of k.
  • Post 2 questions the necessity of the congruence condition for the second conjecture and suggests that the second conjecture might be straightforward, implying a connection between the two conjectures.
  • Post 3 expresses uncertainty about the triviality of the conjectures and emphasizes the importance of the first conjecture as a prerequisite for the second.
  • Post 4 mentions a generalized Binet formula for a broader class of recurrence relations, suggesting that it may provide additional insights beyond the original conjectures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the two conjectures, with some considering one a consequence of the other, while others see them as distinct. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of the conditions and the implications of the conjectures.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions regarding the integer outputs of the Binet formula and the specific conditions under which the conjectures hold. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the underlying mathematical concepts.

dodo
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Let [tex]Q(\sqrt{k})[/tex], for some positive integer k, be the extension of the field of rationals with basis [tex](1, \sqrt{k})[/tex]. For example, in [tex]Q(\sqrt{5})[/tex] the element [tex]({1 \over 2}, {1 \over 2})[/tex] is the golden ratio = [tex]{1 \over 2} + {1 \over 2}\sqrt{5}[/tex].

Given an extension [tex]Q(\sqrt{k})[/tex], let [tex]B(n)[/tex] denote the 'Binet formula',
[tex]B(n) = {{p^n - (1-p)^n} \over \sqrt k}[/tex], n = 0, 1, 2, ...​
where [tex]p = ({1 \over 2}, {1 \over 2})[/tex].

Conj. 1: [tex]B(n)[/tex] produces only integers, iif [tex]k \equiv 1 \ ("mod" \ 4)[/tex].

Conj. 2: When [tex]k \equiv 1 \ ("mod" \ 4)[/tex], [tex]B(n)[/tex] is the closed-form formula for the recurrence sequence
[tex]x_n = x_{n-1} + A \; x_{n-2}[/tex], n = 2, 3, 4, ...​
[tex]x_0 = 0, \ \ x_1 = 1[/tex]​
with [tex]A = {{k - 1} \over 4}[/tex].
 
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Isn't the second conjecture a straightforward exercise? And you don't even have to bother solving the ordinary linear difference equation: you already know the (putative) solution! (Why do you have the congruence condition on k for conjecture 2?)

And isn't conjecture 1 a trivial consequence of conjecture 2?


I suppose one thing might help to see conjecture 2: if it's right, then [itex]p^n[/itex] and [itex](1-p)^n[/itex] would be a basis for the solution space to the unconstrained version of your difference equation.
 
I'm not sure I follow. (And in any case it's not trivial to me.) :D

As I see it, the first conjecture is a necessary previous step, for the second to be applicable. Possibly because I was interested in recurrence sequences returning only integers and with A = 1, 2, 3, ..., and frankly did not pay attention to the fact that B(n) could in fact be also the closed form for rational values of A and rational-producing sequences.

I'll try to digest what you're saying.
 
There is a generalised Binet formula for the recurrence relation G(n) = aG(n-1) + bG(n-2), which explains much more than the problem raised.
The system does not allow me to post URLs to other sites as I have made less than 15 posts(why ?), but googling "generalised fibonacci" helps, and I also give a "traditional" reference:
Vella, A. and Vella, D. (2006) Calculating exact cycle lengths in the generalised Fibonacci sequence modulo p. Math. Gaz. 90 (available on the internet).
 

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