Proving Invertible Matrix Theorem: A^TDA=D

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which a real invertible matrix A can satisfy the equation A^T D A = D for some non-zero diagonal matrix D. Participants explore the implications of this equation in the context of linear transformations, bilinear forms, and specific types of coordinate transformations, including Euclidean, Galilean, and Lorentz transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that for any real invertible matrix A, there exists a non-zero diagonal matrix D such that A^T D A = D, although this is questioned by others.
  • One participant provides a counter-example using a specific matrix A, arguing that the original proposition is false and suggesting that a nondegenerate matrix Q can lead to a valid transformation.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of the determinant of A, suggesting that if det(A) = ±1, then a diagonal matrix D might exist such that A^T D A = A.
  • Some participants mention that certain transformations, like Euclidean rotations, preserve specific forms, while others, like Galilean transformations, do not preserve a bilinear form but may preserve certain quadratic forms separately.
  • There is a discussion about the properties of matrices that leave a bilinear form invariant, noting that this is a classical problem related to the symmetry properties and signature of the matrix Q.
  • One participant expresses confidence that only specific classes of transformations satisfy the condition A^T D A = D for some diagonal matrix D.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the original proposition regarding the existence of a diagonal matrix D for any invertible matrix A. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the conditions under which the equation holds and the types of transformations that preserve bilinear forms.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of the determinant of A and the nondegeneracy of matrices involved. There are references to specific cases where transformations do or do not preserve bilinear forms, indicating that the discussion is nuanced and dependent on the definitions and properties of the matrices involved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying linear algebra, particularly in the context of transformations and bilinear forms, as well as researchers exploring the properties of specific groups of matrices in physics and mathematics.

dEdt
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Let A be any real invertible matrix. There exists a non-zero diagonal matrix D such that [itex]A^T D A=D[/itex].

I'm pretty sure this is true (maybe with some conditions on A), but I need some help proving it.
 
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dEdt said:
Let A be any real invertible matrix. There exists a non-zero diagonal matrix D such that [itex]A^T D A=D[/itex].

I'm pretty sure this is true (maybe with some conditions on A), but I need some help proving it.

This does not seem to be true as stated. The matrix

[tex]A = \begin{pmatrix} 1 & 2 \\ 3 & 4 \end{pmatrix}[/tex]

is a counter-example.

What is true is that, given a nondegenerate (no zero eigenvalue) matrix [itex]Q[/itex] (not necessarily diagonal), there is a matrix [itex]A[/itex] such that [itex]A^T Q A = Q[/itex]. The set of matrices [itex]A[/itex] should actually form a group, which is the orthogonal group of [itex]Q[/itex] viewed as a bilinear form. This gives us some insight as to why the original proposition is false. For [itex]Q = I[/itex], the matrices [itex]A[/itex] actually satisfy [itex]A^{-1} =A^T[/itex], so this is a fairly restrictive condition. So it is not surprising that a generic invertible matrix [itex]A[/itex] should fail to preserve a bilinear form.
 
Thanks for your answer.

After thinking about it a bit more, it's clear that few real invertible matrices could satisfy that condition simply because
[tex]A^T DA=A\rightarrow \mathrm{det}(A)\mathrm{det}(D) \mathrm{det}(A)=\mathrm{det}(D) \rightarrow \mathrm{det}A=\pm 1.[/tex]

So, let A be any real invertible matrix with [itex]\mathrm{det}A=\pm 1[/itex]. There exists a non-zero diagonal matrix D such that [itex]A^T DA=A[/itex]. Is this a theorem?
 
dEdt said:
Thanks for your answer.

After thinking about it a bit more, it's clear that few real invertible matrices could satisfy that condition simply because
[tex]A^T DA=A\rightarrow \mathrm{det}(A)\mathrm{det}(D) \mathrm{det}(A)=\mathrm{det}(D) \rightarrow \mathrm{det}A=\pm 1.[/tex]

I didn't mention this because you didn't specify that ##\mathrm{det}(D)\neq 0##. You'll note that this is implied by the nondegeneracy property specified in the theorem I mentioned.

So, let A be any real invertible matrix with [itex]\mathrm{det}A=\pm 1[/itex]. There exists a non-zero diagonal matrix D such that [itex]A^T DA=A[/itex]. Is this a theorem?

[tex]A = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \begin{pmatrix} 1 & 2 \\ 3 & 4 \end{pmatrix}[/tex]

is a counterexample with ##\mathrm{det}A=- 1##.
 
fzero said:
[tex]A = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \begin{pmatrix} 1 & 2 \\ 3 & 4 \end{pmatrix}[/tex]

is a counterexample with ##\mathrm{det}A=- 1##.

Of course, how stupid of me!

micromass said:

It was interesting, thank you for the link. Unfortunately it didn't help me find what I was looking for.

I'll give you guys a bit more info about what I'm actually trying to do.

For simplicity, consider a two dimensional vector space. One class of coordinate transformations are the Euclidean rotations
[tex]R(\theta)=\left( <br /> \begin{array}{cc} <br /> \cos \theta & \sin \theta\\ <br /> -\sin \theta & \cos \theta <br /> \end{array} <br /> \right).[/tex]
These transformations preserve [itex]x^2+y^2[/itex], and hence [itex]R^T D R=D[/itex] for
[tex]D=\left( <br /> \begin{array}{cc} <br /> 1 & 0\\ <br /> 0 & 1 <br /> \end{array} <br /> \right).[/tex]
Another two types of transformations are the Galilean and Lorentz transformations. There are also transformations that scale the coordinates by some factor. All of these transformations satisfy the condition above.

I'm pretty confident that these four classes of transformations are the only permissible linear coordinate transformations, and I want to prove it by showing that any linear coordinate transformation [itex]A[/itex] must satisfy [itex]A^T D A=D[/itex] for some diagonal matrix [itex]D[/itex].
 
dEdt said:
Of course, how stupid of me!



It was interesting, thank you for the link. Unfortunately it didn't help me find what I was looking for.

I'll give you guys a bit more info about what I'm actually trying to do.

For simplicity, consider a two dimensional vector space. One class of coordinate transformations are the Euclidean rotations
[tex]R(\theta)=\left( <br /> \begin{array}{cc} <br /> \cos \theta & \sin \theta\\ <br /> -\sin \theta & \cos \theta <br /> \end{array} <br /> \right).[/tex]
These transformations preserve [itex]x^2+y^2[/itex], and hence [itex]R^T D R=D[/itex] for
[tex]D=\left( <br /> \begin{array}{cc} <br /> 1 & 0\\ <br /> 0 & 1 <br /> \end{array} <br /> \right).[/tex]
Another two types of transformations are the Galilean and Lorentz transformations. There are also transformations that scale the coordinates by some factor. All of these transformations satisfy the condition above.

I'm pretty confident that these four classes of transformations are the only permissible linear coordinate transformations, and I want to prove it by showing that any linear coordinate transformation [itex]A[/itex] must satisfy [itex]A^T D A=D[/itex] for some diagonal matrix [itex]D[/itex].

Linear coordinate transformations modulo translations form a group known as the general linear group, which is the group of invertible matrices (over the reals). In some cases, a linear transformation does preserve a bilinear form, for instance, for the Euclidean metric [itex]\delta = \mathrm{diag}(1, \ldots 1)[/itex] we get the rotation group. For the Minkowski metric, [itex]\eta = \mathrm{diag}(-1,1, \ldots 1)[/itex], we find the Lorentz transformations. Both of these groups are orthogonal groups, with the Lorentz group an example of an indefinite orthogonal group.

In general, there won't be a preserved bilinear form. For instance, the Galilean transformations don't preserve one. Rescalings of coordinates also do not preserve a quadratic form. Under a uniform rescaling of all coordinates, the Euclidean and Minkowski metrics are rescaled by the square of the parameter.

Therefore, the tractable question is really, given a bilinear form or matrix [itex]Q[/itex], to describe the properties of the matrices [itex]A[/itex] that leave it invariant. This is a classical problem and it reduces to the properties of [itex]Q[/itex]: the symmetry properties, the signature, etc. Over the reals, we find the orthogonal and symplectic groups, see here.
 
fzero said:
In general, there won't be a preserved bilinear form. For instance, the Galilean transformations don't preserve one. Rescalings of coordinates also do not preserve a quadratic form. Under a uniform rescaling of all coordinates, the Euclidean and Minkowski metrics are rescaled by the square of the parameter.

The Galilean transformations may not preserve a bilinear form, but they preserve [itex]x^2 +y^2+z^2[/itex] and [itex]t^2[/itex] separately, so there's still a D satisfying those conditions.
 
dEdt said:
The Galilean transformations may not preserve a bilinear form, but they preserve [itex]x^2 +y^2+z^2[/itex] and [itex]t^2[/itex] separately, so there's still a D satisfying those conditions.

Yes, I was forgetting about the origin. So it's a pair of bilinear forms that are preserved independently. You could derive the form of the Galilean transformations in an analogous fashion to the previous cases.
 

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