Proving $M$ is Cyclic: Simple $R$-Module & Isomorphism with Maximal Ideal $J$

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that a simple $R$-module $M$ is cyclic and isomorphic to the quotient $R/J$, where $J$ is a maximal ideal of the commutative ring $R$. Participants explore the implications of the simplicity of $M$ and the properties of the mapping from $R$ to $M$.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest using the nonzero element $x$ of $M$ to show that the $R$-submodule $Rx$ equals $M$, thus proving $M$ is cyclic.
  • There is a discussion about the surjectivity of the mapping $\phi: R \to M$ defined by $r \mapsto rm$, with some participants questioning how to conclude that $\text{Im}\phi = M$.
  • Participants explore the implications of the simplicity of $M$ on the kernel of the mapping and the nature of the ideal $J$.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about whether $J$ is already known to be maximal or needs to be proven as part of the exercise.
  • There is a proposal to show that if $K$ is an ideal such that $J \subset K \subsetneq R$, then $K/J$ must be trivial, leading to $K = J$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to proving that $M$ is cyclic and the properties of the mapping $\phi$. However, there is some disagreement and uncertainty regarding the necessity of proving that $J$ is maximal and the implications of the mappings and ideals involved.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on the definitions of simplicity and maximal ideals, as well as the unresolved steps in proving the properties of the mapping and the ideal $J$.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let $R$ be a commutative ring with unit and $M$ a $R$-module.

If $M$ is a simple $R$-module, i.e., the only $R$-submodule are $O$ and $M$, then $M$ is cyclic and isomorphic to $R/J$ where $J$ is a maximal ideal of $R$. Could you give me some hints how we could show that $M$ is cyclic? (Wondering)
 
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Hi mathmari,

Let $x$ be a nonzero element of $M$ and consider the $R$-submodule $Rx$. Use simplicity of $M$ to prove $M = Rx$. This also proves $M$ is cyclic.
 
Euge said:
Let $x$ be a nonzero element of $M$ and consider the $R$-submodule $Rx$. Use simplicity of $M$ to prove $M = Rx$. This also proves $M$ is cyclic.

Since $M$ is simple, we have that $Rx=O$ or $Rx=M$.
Since $x$ is nonzero and since we have that $x=1\cdot x\in Rx$, it cannot be that $Rx=O$, right? (Wondering)
Therefore, $Rx=M$.
That implies that $M$ is cyclic. We have that $R/J$ is a ring and since $J$ is a maximal ideal of $R$, we have that $R/J$ is a field.
To show that $M$ is isomorphic to $R/J$, do we have to consider the mapping $R\rightarrow M$ and show that it is an homomorphism and bijective and that the kernel is $J$ ? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Since $M$ is simple, we have that $Rx=O$ or $Rx=M$.
Since $x$ is nonzero and since we have that $x=1\cdot x\in Rx$, it cannot be that $Rx=O$, right? (Wondering)
Therefore, $Rx=M$.
That implies that $M$ is cyclic.

Yes, that's correct.

We have that $R/J$ is a ring and since $J$ is a maximal ideal of $R$, we have that $R/J$ is a field.
To show that $M$ is isomorphic to $R/J$, do we have to consider the mapping $R\rightarrow M$ and show that it is an homomorphism and bijective and that the kernel is $J$ ? (Wondering)

Not exactly. The $J$ is not yet determined. Show that the mapping $R \to M$ is a surjective $R$-homomorphism. By the first isomorphism, you can then claim that $M$ is isomorphic to $R/J$ where $J$ is the kernel of that mapping. So $R/J$ is simple. Finally, show that that if $K$ is an ideal of $R$ such that $J \subset K \subsetneq R$, then $J = K$. That would prove that $J$ is a maximal ideal.
 
Euge said:
Show that the mapping $R \to M$ is a surjective $R$-homomorphism.

We consider the mapping $\phi: R\rightarrow M$ with $r\mapsto rm$.
We have that $\text{Im}\phi$ is a $R$-submodule of $M$. Since $M$ is simple it follows that $\text{Im}\phi=O$ or $\text{Im}\phi=M$.
To show that $\phi$ is surjective, we have to conclude that $\text{Im}\phi=M$, right? How could we conclude that? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
To show that $\phi$ is surjective, we have to conclude that $\text{Im}\phi=M$, right?

Yes, that's right.

How could we conclude that? (Wondering)

Using the fact that $Rx = M$.
 
Euge said:
Using the fact that $Rx = M$.

For $x=m$ we have that $M=Rm$, since $M$ is cyclic.
We have that $rm\in Rm$ and from the mapping we have that $rm\in \text{Im}\phi$, so $M=Rm\subseteq \text{Im}\phi$.
From that it follows that $\text{Im}\phi$ cannot be $O$. Therefore, it must be $\text{Im}\phi=M$.
Is this correct? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
For $x=m$ we have that $M=Rm$, since $M$ is cyclic.
We have that $rm\in Rm$ and from the mapping we have that $rm\in \text{Im}\phi$, so $M=Rm\subseteq \text{Im}\phi$.
From that it follows that $\text{Im}\phi$ cannot be $O$. Therefore, it must be $\text{Im}\phi=M$.
Is this correct? (Wondering)

No, $x$ was already chosen. You can't substitute $m$ for $x$.
 
Euge said:
No, $x$ was already chosen. You can't substitute $m$ for $x$.

So, at the mapping we choose $m=x$, so we have the mapping $r\mapsto rx$, or not? (Wondering)
 
  • #10
You're still saying $x = m$, which isn't right. The element $x$ was introduced in post #2. Since $Rx = M$, for every $m\in M$, there corresponds an $r\in R$ such that $rx = m$, that is, $\varphi(r) = m$. Hence, $\varphi$ is onto.
 
  • #11
Euge said:
Show that the mapping $R \to M$ is a surjective $R$-homomorphism. By the first isomorphism, you can then claim that $M$ is isomorphic to $R/J$ where $J$ is the kernel of that mapping. So $R/J$ is simple.

We have shown that $\phi$ is onto.

We have that $\phi$ is an homomorphism since:
$$\phi (r_1+r_2)=(r_1+r_2)m=r_1m+r_2m=\phi (r_1)+\phi (r_2) \\ \phi (ar)=arm=a\phi (r)$$ Now it is left to show that the kernel of that mapping is the maximal ideal $J$, or not? (Wondering)
How do we show that? (Wondering)
Euge said:
Finally, show that that if $K$ is an ideal of $R$ such that $J \subset K \subsetneq R$, then $J = K$. That would prove that $J$ is a maximal ideal.

Why do we have to prove that? Do we not know from the exercise statement that $J$ is a maximal ideal? (Wondering)
 
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  • #12
mathmari said:
Now it is left to show that the kernel of that mapping is the maximal ideal $J$, or not? (Wondering)
How do we show that? (Wondering)
No, since by definition (look at Post #4) $J$ is the kernel.

mathmari said:
Why do we have to prove that? Do we not know from the exercise statement that $J$ is a maximal ideal? (Wondering)
You are to prove the exercise statement, not assume it.
 
  • #13
Euge said:
Finally, show that that if $K$ is an ideal of $R$ such that $J \subset K \subsetneq R$, then $J = K$. That would prove that $J$ is a maximal ideal.

How could we show that? Using the property that $M$ is simple? (Wondering)
 
  • #14
mathmari said:
How could we show that? Using the property that $M$ is simple? (Wondering)
Yes, that's right.
 
  • #15
Euge said:
Yes, that's right.

How exactly can we do that? I got stuck right now... Could you give me a hint? (Wondering)
 
  • #16
Let $K$ be an ideal of $R$ such that $J\subset K \subsetneq R$. Then $K/J$ is a submodule of $R/J$. Since $R/J$ is simple (since $M$ is simple), what can you say about $K/J$?
 
  • #17
Euge said:
Let $K$ be an ideal of $R$ such that $J\subset K \subsetneq R$. Then $K/J$ is a submodule of $R/J$. Since $R/J$ is simple (since $M$ is simple), what can you say about $K/J$?

We have that $K/J=O$ or $K/J=R/J$, but since $K\subsetneq R$ we have that $K/J=O$. Is this correct? (Wondering),
 
  • #18
Yes, that's absolutely right.
 
  • #19
Euge said:
Yes, that's absolutely right.

Does $K/J=O$ mean that $K=J$ ? (Wondering)
 
  • #20
Correct!
 
  • #21
Ok... Thank you very much for your help! (Smile)
 

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