Proving Symmetric Tensor Equation: S=[0.5(T+TT)]

  • Thread starter Thread starter manicwhite
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Symmetric Tensor
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the equation S = 0.5(T + TT) for a symmetric tensor S and any tensor T. Participants explore the implications of symmetry and the properties of tensors in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to manipulate the equation using trace notation and questions how to relate the left-hand side to the right-hand side. Some participants suggest examining the properties of symmetric and antisymmetric tensors to aid in the proof.

Discussion Status

Participants have provided various insights and approaches, including the use of trace properties and the decomposition of tensors into symmetric and antisymmetric components. There is acknowledgment of different methods that could be explored further, but no consensus has been reached on a definitive solution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the potential confusion arising from the notation used and the definitions of tensor operations. The original poster expresses gratitude for the assistance received, indicating a learning process is underway.

manicwhite
Messages
6
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



S : T = S:[0.5(T+TT)]
S is a symetric tensor
show for any tensor T the above is valid

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


what i think i know
ST=S
S:T=tr[STT] =tr[ST]
einstein notation
tr[SijTjk]
[SijTjk]ii
but i can't really see this leading to the LHS

so i changed tact

LHS=RHS
T=0.5(T+TT)
now i can see this being true if T was symetric but that isn't the question

thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
This is quite easy:
<br /> S:\left(\frac{1}{2}(T+T^{T}\right) =\frac{1}{2}S^{ab}(T_{ab}+T_{ba})=\frac{1}{2}S^{ab}T_{ab}+\frac{1}{2}S^{ab}T_{ba}=\frac{1}{2}S^{ab}T_{ab}+\frac{1}{2}S^{ba}T_{ba}<br />
The last follows as S is symmetric
 
manicwhite said:
S:T=tr[STT] =tr[ST]
einstein notation
tr[SijTjk]
[SijTjk]ii
This notation doesn't make sense. (That doesn't mean that I would be surprised if your book or your professor uses it or something very similar). This makes sense:

S:T=\operatorname{tr}(S^T T)=(S^T T)_{ii}=(S^T)_{ij}T_{ji}=S_{ji}T_{ji}

Note that I'm just using your definition of S:T, the definition of trace, the definition of matrix multiplication, and the definition of the transpose. (And obviously the summation convention too).

hunt_mat's suggestion is an easy way to solve this problem. Another approach, which may be more useful in the long run, is to prove that

a) if S is symmetric and A is antisymmetric (i.e. Aij=-Aji), then SA=0. (The terms "skew symmetric", "skew" or "alternating" are often used instead of "antisymmetric").

b) Every tensor (with two indices) can be expressed as a sum of a symmetric and an antisymmetric tensor.

Part a) is an easy exercise that I suggest that you do. Part b) is obvious once you've seen the trick, but it can take some time to see it:

T=\frac{T+T^T}{2}+\frac{T-T^T}{2}

As an example of how this can simplify things, consider the following proof of the identity \vec x\cdot(\vec x\times \vec y):

\vec x\cdot(\vec x\times \vec y)=x_i\varepsilon_{ijk}x_jy_k=0

The conclusion is immediate, since \varepsilon is antisymmetric in i and j (i.e. changes sign under an exchange of i and j), and xixj is symmetric in i and j.
 
thanks very, you have both been a great help.

it easy when you know how. hopefully i do know now and this will stick in my head.

the notation i used was my attempt to derive this myself. i actually found the final line"SijTij"quoted in my notes in the end

once again thanks very much
merry xamss
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
978
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K