Proving uniqueness of inverse by identity (Groups)

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The discussion focuses on determining the identity element and inverses in a group defined by the operation (a,b)*(c,d)=(ac-bd,ad+bc) on the set ℝxℝ with the origin deleted. To find the identity element, participants are advised to solve the equation (a,b)*(e1,e2)=(a,b) for e1 and e2. There is confusion regarding the identity axiom and the calculation of inverses, particularly the incorrect assumption that (a,b)^{-1} equals (a^{-1},b^{-1}). It is emphasized that the identity must be established before assigning inverses to elements. The conversation highlights the necessity of solving for e1 and e2 to correctly identify the group's properties.
YABSSOR
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1. Which of the following is a group?
To find the identity element, which in these problems is an ordered pair (e1, e2) of real numbers, solve the equation (a,b)*(e1, e2)=(a,b) for e1 and e2.




2. (a,b)*(c,d)=(ac-bd,ad+bc), on the set ℝxℝ with the origin deleted.



3. The question also asks for you to find the inverse and I think implicitly for associativity and then for commutativity. I've got the other three down, but the identity axiom is giving me trouble.

(a,b)*(a,b)-1=(aa-1-bb-1,ab-1+ba-1)
Unless I'm really screwing up here, I think this implies that e1-e2 is the first value, which would be equivalent to e1. However, I don't know how to resolve the ab-1+ba-1) part.


I think I've been dropped from this class for a lack of prerequisites, but I think I'm still going to try and finish the class nonetheless.
 
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YABSSOR said:
1. Which of the following is a group?
To find the identity element, which in these problems is an ordered pair (e1, e2) of real numbers, solve the equation (a,b)*(e1, e2)=(a,b) for e1 and e2.




2. (a,b)*(c,d)=(ac-bd,ad+bc), on the set ℝxℝ with the origin deleted.

That certainly is a complex multiplication rule.

3. The question also asks for you to find the inverse and I think implicitly for associativity and then for commutativity. I've got the other three down, but the identity axiom is giving me trouble.

(a,b)*(a,b)-1=(aa-1-bb-1,ab-1+ba-1)

That won't work; it's not the case here that (a,b)^{-1} = (a^{-1},b^{-1}) (what inverses did you assign to (1,0) and (0, 1), both of which are members of this alleged group?).

It is a consequence of the definitions that you cannot assign an inverse to an element until you have found the identity.

As suggested, you need to set (a,b)*(e_1,e_2) = (ae_1 - be_2, ae_2 + be_1) = (a,b) and solve for e_1 and e_2.

Then, to find (a,b)^{-1} = (c,d), set (a,b)*(c,d) = (e_1,e_2) and solve for c and d.
 
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Question: A clock's minute hand has length 4 and its hour hand has length 3. What is the distance between the tips at the moment when it is increasing most rapidly?(Putnam Exam Question) Answer: Making assumption that both the hands moves at constant angular velocities, the answer is ## \sqrt{7} .## But don't you think this assumption is somewhat doubtful and wrong?

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