Proving Zorn's Lemma to Understanding and Application

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of Zorn's Lemma, exploring its foundations in set theory, the necessary axioms, and various approaches to understanding and proving the lemma. It includes references to literature and personal experiences with the proof, as well as reflections on the complexity of the theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks help in learning how to prove Zorn's Lemma.
  • Another participant notes that proving Zorn's Lemma requires knowledge of set theory, including the axioms of ZFC, the replacement axiom, the axiom of choice, transfinite induction, and ordinals.
  • References to textbooks and online materials are provided for further study, including works by Hrbacek and Jech.
  • A participant mentions that Zorn's Lemma can be proved without using transfinite induction or ordinals, referencing an elementary proof available online.
  • One participant expresses difficulty with Hamos' proof but acknowledges understanding the transfinite induction proof, which involves ordinals.
  • A reminiscence is shared about the equivalence of statements including the Axiom of Choice and Zorn's Lemma.
  • A participant reflects on the complexity of the proof, comparing it to the movie "Inception" due to the layers of abstraction involved in proving the existence of a maximal element.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of certain concepts (like transfinite induction and ordinals) in proving Zorn's Lemma. There is no consensus on a single approach or understanding of the proof, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the complexity and abstraction involved in the proof, suggesting that the foundational concepts may not be universally agreed upon or understood in the same way.

quantum123
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I want to learn how to prove the Zorn's lemma.
Can anyone here help me?
 
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The proof of Zorn's lemma requires some knowledge of set theory. Explicitly, you'll need to know about the axioms of ZFC, the replacement axiom, the axiom of choice, transfinite induction, ordinals,...

To learn about all these things, I've got two beautiful references for you:
- Introduction to set theory, by Hrbacek and Jech
- Set theory, by Jech

If you want some free materials on the internet, then I recommend staff.science.uva.nl/~vervoort/AST/ast.pdf but it's not at all an easy lecture...
 
Interesting and thanks!
I have saved staff.science.uva.nl/~vervoort/AST/ast.pdf and will read it soon.
Thanks for sharing, micromass!
 
LOL
Axiom 0:
i) There exists at least 1 thing, and
ii) everything is a set.
 
You can prove Zorn's Lemma from basic set theoretic facts, without any use of transfinite induction, ordinals etc..
A good proof is given in Zorn's Lemma- An elementary proof under the Axiom of Choice http://arxiv.org/abs/1207.6698 .
 
I was really stuck by Hamos' proof. Thanks for this 6 pages explanation. I will try to understand it later. BTW, I have finally understood the transfinite induction proof - in that proof you need the ordinals ..
 
A bit of reminiscense: when I was exposed to this material I recall that there were several statements including the Axiom of Choice and Zorn's lemma, and they were all equivalent.
 
Finished reading the proof. I wonder why must the proof of such an innocent theorem be so long. From the definition of a poset, axiom of choice, one need to define initial segments, chains, towers, comparable sets, layers upon layers of abstraction to prove something like: a maximal element exist. This reminds me of the movie: Inception. You need to dream 5 levels to plant just a simple idea.
 

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