Public Education is horrid, I can fairly attest.

[bomba923]

Ahh...I always seek perfection in my cursive. For each letter and phrase
Good cursive penmanship is something I value indeed.

**That said, I do not refer to perfection as "writing the letters and words just like they appear on third or fourth grade cursive practice sheets." That cursive is quite inefficient!

--The handwriting format I usually use is "condensed cursive"-->meaning the letters appear slightly narrower (less wide, "horizontally"-speaking) and certain letters are also written somewhat differently (design-wise) than you might see on third/fourth grade "cursive practice worksheets."

 

[JamesU]

Public Education is horrid, I can fairly attest.
I have been a part of the funderful Public Education System for 11 years now, and I'm getting rather sick of the idiocracies I'm being forced to put up with.
Let's start with when I was in 4th grade or so. I'm in Michigan, going to Shawmut Hills K-6 school, when they give us MEAP tests. We take our standardized tests, and we get our grades back. 5th grade, same thing happens. 6th grade, however, they... LOST. ALL. THE. TESTS. An entire school set of taken tests, and the state somehow misplaces them. Pretty frigging dumb, if you ask me.
That's the major event of my elementary teaching, except me winning the Spelling Bee.
Discipline: What the hell? I'm told that I have to stand by the school wall for not wearing a coat during winter, and it's hardly cold(20 degrees w/o wind is fairly warm), but NOO, we got to stay near the wall. A kid, who ended up being held back for discipline issues, gathers his friends and starts to chase me around the wall, and I end up leaving to keep my head from being beaten in. The teacher gives me detention for leaving the wall, and then sends me back to the wall, where I end up getting in a fight and getting a suspension(I was trying to protect myself, but NOOO).
Another occurance, in 6th grade. I'm heading home, and it's a week before the field trip to Camp Manitou-Lin, some YMCA Christian camp(I can also bear witness to that camp's ability to entertain), which we go for the weekend. I am heading home when the same kid who chased me in the above situation sees me, and flips me off. Me, being the smartass that I am, say "Hey dude, wrong finger!", because he's using his ring finger so as to not get in trouble. He chases me down and then tackles me, and I land on a rock, breaking my right arm. However, I didn't know it was broken, I just thought that it hurt like hell. Anyway, a week later, I go to camp Manitou-Lin, but I can't do the high-ropes or rock climbing, due to my arm hurting. About a week after that, my parents are worried about the arm, so they get it X-rayed, and it turns out that it WAS broken. My dad goes to the school and tells them that the kid broke my arm, and what happens?
Coincidentially, nothing. They didn't suspend, expel, or really keep him away from campus. Instead, they gave some bogus argument about "His parents can't watch him due to a job, so we can't suspend him, otherwise he'll run around vandalizing". DURR SCHOOL, WHY NOT DO AN ON-CAMPUS SUSPENSION? Well, the school was fairly... dumb, should I use? The kid was not punished in any way for breaking my arm, and no one but us was forced to pay medical expenses. We didn't want to tie ourselfs into a lawsuit, so we didn't.(My dad explained parts of that, especially the lawsuit part, later on.)
Fast forward. I graduate Shawmut Hills, and go to City Middle/High school. Some stupid "advanced public school for gifted/advanced children", if I remember correctly. However, I was forced to do community service if I wanted to stay in that public school, which is dumb enough. The education was okay, except for a pure-evil World Geography teacher and their Extra Core(Study hall-esque) classes being nothing but game-playing. Turns out, school social banter is the same in an "advanced" school as it is in a "regular" school. In 7th grade, I took Science Processes(teaches how Science researches, lab-work, learning the Method, and so on). In 8th grade, I took Earth Science.
Fast-forward. It's the start of 9th grade, and I moved down to a regular school. Why? I figured that the extra work was worthless, and community service isn't really good for a college application if you're FORCED to do it. Shows no moral fiber, only obedience(sp?). I'm taking some computer class, which literally TEACHES YOU HOW TO TYPE and not much more. I asked repeatedly to be moved to a higher-level computer class, but to no avail. Their argument was that it was a "required class", and would not let me test out of the class in any way, shape, or form.
Fast-forward. Still 9th grade, but I moved to Arizona. I'm told to enroll in these classes: Discovery(real-life situation explination and education), Math(Geometry, what I was taking before, perfectly acceptable), English(I tested at a post-college reading level and I often read Stephen King[Off topic, but anyone else read his material? It's awesome.]), and I ended up reading in class throughout most of English(and math, but that's OT). My last class was a science class, and I had a choice between... Gasp. SCIENCE PROCESSES or EARTH SCIENCE? I took BOTH of those already! Nope, can't let you test out of them, required classes, nope, no going to biology, stay in the retard class until we tell you to.
I believe that school is about teaching, not getting good grades, which is why I wanted out of those classes and into higher classes.
Fast-forward to roughly now. I'm in 10th Grade, and I'm currently typing this in a retarded programming class. He hosts the material on his website and tells us to copy and paste it, and then he basically says "Play with the program", and that's considered teaching. (Off topic: He's wierd, seeing "Faces on the walls", always talking about "knowing the Truth", and other such nonsense.) When we take a test, without having been actually taught the materials, we're told to make the program... 93% of the class fails the test, and he starts babbling stuff about "The average student is an A student", when the class average is a C.
I've seen an exaggerated million tiny errors, mostly in spelling, but let me take some false material. A large portion comes from my faulty 10th grade Biology class, who tried to teach us that the Candle relies on the Burn speed, and that you measure the Candle when trying to see how fast a candle burns. She also thought that Transparent meant cannot-see-through, and said that a leaf was "Very Very Transparent". Every class, there are always tons of spelling errors on everything, including English tests!
I am currently pretty tired, and I can't think of much more to put, so I'll add on to it later.
This is a personal account of the fallicies of our education system, and is only based on what I've personally seen.

You're like...me.

 

[bomba923]

Hello, yomamma and Blahness. Perhaps you find this interesting,
(from Sowell, Thomas. Inside American Education. Free Press, 1992. page 4.)

Science is not the only field in which American students are lacking in knowledge and--more importantly--in the ability to tie what they know together to form a coherent chain of reasoning. Many American students seem unaware of even the need for such a process. Test scores are only the tip of the inceberg. Professor Diane Ravitch, a scholar specializing in the study of American education, reports that "professors complain about students who arrive at college with strong convictions but not enough knowledge to argue persuasively for their beliefs." As Professor Ravitch concludes: "Having opinions without knowledge is not of much value; not knowing the difference between them is a positive indicator of ignorance." In short, it is not merely that Johnny can't read, or even that Johnny can't think. Johnny doesn't know what thinking is, because thinking is so often confused with feeling in many public schools.

What do YOU think?

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Ahh...I always seek perfection in my cursive. For each letter and phrase
Good cursive penmanship is something I value indeed.

**That said, I do not refer to perfection as "writing the letters and words just like they appear on third or fourth grade cursive practice sheets." That cursive is quite inefficient!

--The handwriting format I usually use is "condensed cursive"-->meaning the letters appear slightly narrower (less wide, "horizontally"-speaking) and certain letters are also written somewhat differently (design-wise) than you might see on third/fourth grade "cursive practice worksheets."

The school my kids go to teaches them a fast semi-cursive writing at age four, rather than ever teaching them to print. The reason they give is that it helps with spelling, speed and concentration. This article explains their reasoning-
http://www.tes.co.uk/section/story/?story_id=2047983&window_type=print

 

[Blahness]

To fi: If they teach it REALLY early on, it would help. So, yes, I can see the reasoning behind that logic.

To Angel: Thank you so much for getting that! Much obliged. ^_^'

To bomba: Bingo. We're learning factoids that most people only retain in short-term, which may lead to opinions formulated based on teacher bias and former possible knowledge. Factoids don't help: MAKING CONNECTIONS DO!

Anyway, My school that I go to right now is rated on a state ranking of "Excelling". This means that my school is in the top 9.1% of all schools in Arizona, based on graduation(sp >_<) rates, GPA, and test scores.

Seems all good, right? WRONG. Most of the standards are soooo low that anyone with the ability to make logical inductions could pass it. That, and the standards go down more each year, as Smash, Angel, and I have seen.

Look at the average kid in your school. Can you see them excelling in life?


Anyway, to say stuff to some people.

You're like... me O_O

Sweet. ^_^. I'm not suprised, though.
Anything to contribute, perhaps?

To bomba923: I only use cursive for signatures, as said previously. That being said, I have/had ADD and my handwriting sucks no matter WHAT system I use. Ah well, as long as it's legible, no one really cares.

To Angel: Once again, thanks for the stuff.

To fi: The thing is, they're learning cursive at age 4. We were taught it at age 9-11.


And a final note, to show that schools aren't COMPLETELY degraded: They still value spelling a LOT. Thank (insert omniscient and omnipotent being here).

 

[AngelShare]

My brother's a pefect example of one of those kids you wonder about. You look at him and think "Nice kid but what will become of him?" He lacks logic, study skills, etc. He writes like a second grader, dislikes reading, is mediocre in math at best, hates physical labor of any kind (My Dad called home today and asked that my brother pick up the potatoes he left laying on the rug and place them in a bucket so he could come home and carry them outside. My brother whined "I haven't even gotten to step inside my room yet, I'm always so busy." Mind you, the kid doesn't have ANY chores and never does his homework. Then, he whined about the dirt so I ended up doing it for the lazy wimp.) and has no talents.

He thinks studying for 30 minutes in study hall for a test is enough...then he wonders why he fails his tests. It's like, no matter how long he's been in school, he was never taught what studying is and I can't get that kid to bring his books home for the life of me.

As if that school isn't bad enough, they're having problems with a loony student running around sticking people with a needle. He just walks up to you and pokes you with it and no one knows who's doing it or why. They say they're working on it but my Dad has decided to call down and see what's up before sending my brother back. He's afraid because the teachers told him it's a dangerous situation since they don't know what the kid is doing and they think he's using the same needle which could end up infecting someone.

 

[ShawnD]

With cursive, I learned in first grade, and then in around seventh grade, we stopped using it... ever. When I had computer classes in elementary school, we learned to type and well... use frontpage instead of html.

That sounds like what I had. Cursive was a huge waste of time because nobody can read it. I would write something out, and people would ask "what letter is that" to which I would say "that's an R...". When I got to university, teachers would not accept any assignment written in cursive. I basically had to relearn normal writing. Took a while but I got the hang of it .
As for the typing, I'm so glad they taught me that in elementary. I started off around 10 words per minute, and now I'm up to about 70 words per minute. My brother didn't learn typing in elementary because he's a few years older than me. He never really did learn how to type because it was just never taught to him in school.

Most of english was a huge waste of time. I can tell you 3 different kinds of poetry, but I didn't learn what a "coordinating conjuction" was until last year; that would be university, not any of the standard 12 grades. It's no wonder people have such horrible grammar these days, myself included.

The system as a whole would be a lot better if it was heavily based around math, particularly the language of math. If I write something is ~5, you should know what I mean. If I write {stuff} you should know that I'm indicating stuff is a actually a series of data, not just one number. This would not only help people communicate ideas effectively, but it would make the learning curve of Excel and calculators much easier.
I also think calculus should be manditory for everybody, and it should be introduced earlier on. I remember in grade 11 my physics teacher was trying to show some reaction changing over time. He said the calculations would be easy with calculus, but we had to do things using triangulation because nobody knew what calculus was.

 

[AngelShare]

I don't know if I agree with that...See, I'm torn between saying that's a good idea and saying it's a bad idea because not everyone is the same. You can't say "Everyone will be here by the time they graduate" because everyone thinks differently and is capable of different things. For example, I'm better in History and English. I have no problem with either subject and both interest me. Math and Chemistry though are two different things. While I acknowledge that both are important, I'm not nearly naive enough to think every single person in the world will be great at both or need both and that includes me. I can do up to Algebra 2 or so and then anything after that causes me problems. As for Chemistry, I can't go past Biology. English is an entirely different thing though as is History. I, unfortunately, had my last year of History last year and have reached English 3. I'm just not set up for such subjects and no matter how hard someone pushes me, I won't be motivated to learn it. Instead, I'd be more motivated to move to another country to get away from Trig.

 

[moose]

You're like...me.

Half of it is your fault I hope you know. You can't blame everything on the system. A lot of kids think that they aren't doing anything and blah blah. Sure people like you don't deserve to be treated like you are, but it's extremely avoidable and would make you an overall better person.

 

[JamesU]

how am I supposed to avoid our science class JUST teaching us about acceleration (finally) and my computer class which is 99.9% typing?

Plus my math class in which 19-4/x=5 is our hardest problem so far

 

[moose]

That sounds like what I had. Cursive was a huge waste of time because nobody can read it. I would write something out, and people would ask "what letter is that" to which I would say "that's an R...". When I got to university, teachers would not accept any assignment written in cursive. I basically had to relearn normal writing. Took a while but I got the hang of it .
As for the typing, I'm so glad they taught me that in elementary. I started off around 10 words per minute, and now I'm up to about 70 words per minute. My brother didn't learn typing in elementary because he's a few years older than me. He never really did learn how to type because it was just never taught to him in school.
Most of english was a huge waste of time. I can tell you 3 different kinds of poetry, but I didn't learn what a "coordinating conjuction" was until last year; that would be university, not any of the standard 12 grades. It's no wonder people have such horrible grammar these days, myself included.
The system as a whole would be a lot better if it was heavily based around math, particularly the language of math. If I write something is ~5, you should know what I mean. If I write {stuff} you should know that I'm indicating stuff is a actually a series of data, not just one number. This would not only help people communicate ideas effectively, but it would make the learning curve of Excel and calculators much easier.
I also think calculus should be manditory for everybody, and it should be introduced earlier on. I remember in grade 11 my physics teacher was trying to show some reaction changing over time. He said the calculations would be easy with calculus, but we had to do things using triangulation because nobody knew what calculus was.

I am glad we learned how to type, but pissed that we used frontpage instead of html. Here are some sample websites that students made with html...

http://sunrisehigh.peoriaud.k12.az.us/sunrise/guidance.htm
see that picture? see how it's 3.5MB, see how it's actually 3500xsomething pixels, but they shrank it in frontpage without even thinking about it?

Well there are tons of examples like that


Anywho, I can now type at around 85 words per minute cruise and around 110 wmp peak... This is mainly through typing a lot everyday through aim while doing my homework (which also involves typing). BUT, I owe it all to where I learned the basics of how to type properly.


About the math thing, I completely agree with you. Today my chiropractor (I'm only 16 but go to one to not have much trouble later on ) asked me what math class I'm in. I responded with "Precalculus, the class right before calc" and he said "WOAH!". It was a sad moment for me, that somebody could actually think highly of basic math. Also, my sister is a third year physics major and is now taking physics courses which my dad says he had last year of high school (In Poland, he was in a special physics program at high school). My high school goes up to AP Physics I which is just physics with trig, the school doesn't even offer calc based physics! Math teaches common sense and logic, which should be rated above almost every other thing. People who say "My major won't involve math, so I don't need it" are stupid! Today in my physics class (absolutely basic physics, physics without trig or anything) he had one example of something up and it said sin\theta and people were going crazy saying how they don't want to do anything this hard . He just used that as an example, not that we would do anything "that hard" .

 

[moose]

how am I supposed to avoid our science class JUST teaching us about acceleration (finally) and my computer class which is 99.9% typing?
Plus my math class in which 19-4/x=5 is our hardest problem so far

I thought you were talking about being picked on .

You can't really avoid your situation... Although when I was in eighth grade, I was doing basic quadratic stuff...

 

[AngelShare]

Half of it is your fault I hope you know. You can't blame everything on the system. A lot of kids think that they aren't doing anything and blah blah. Sure people like you don't deserve to be treated like you are, but it's extremely avoidable and would make you an overall better person.

How is it avoidable? Think. If that's the way your school district is, that's the way it is, simple. You can roll with the punches but it is not avoidable in some/most cases. How on Earth could I, for example, avoid being stalked and the school ignoring my pleas? How could I avoid working my way up through the system, still learning the same thing over and over? How could I avoid thinking, because that's what one tends to do in such a situation, that my school is right on course only to find out later that it isn't? How am I to avoid the problems I'm having in class due to being behind the norm now? I can't, simply put. I just keep working and roll with it. And my Dad is actually happy with that because he knows the blame is not with me, I'm working my butt off. I've been sitting in front of my computer working on catching up in math (I started late because my school insisted upon me staying in Trig even though I couldn't do it. I was switched last week on Monday and I was behind four chapters or, in other words, about 35 assignments. I'm now behind by just two assignments and I plan on finishing them tonight.) for hours now. Next is Chemistry. I'll be in bed by 2:00AM and back up by 11:00AM for more homework. Then, I'll be at the library from 5:00PM until 8:00PM, volunterring for my Community Service class. I'm not lazy.

EDIT: Mm, what did you mean by "it's avoidable" though? Upon reading what you posted again, I can't quite figure it out. However, the response I gave was in reply to my first impression of your statement. If I got the wrong impression and that makes no sense, I apologize.

 

[moose]

EDIT: Mm, what did you mean by "it's avoidable" though? Upon reading what you posted again, I can't quite figure it out. However, the response I gave was in reply to my first impression of your statement. If I got the wrong impression and that makes no sense, I apologize.

Essentially, doing nothing, being quiet, being a loner, blah blah, all leads to being "picked on" or whatever you want to call it.


Over the years, I have seen that what some people think they should do to avoid things is quite the opposite of what actually works. I don't have time to go into detali right now I will later.

 

[Blahness]

Social situations are difficult for a lot of intelligent kids, I find. >_<

 

[moose]

Social situations are difficult for a lot of intelligent kids, I find. >_<

That's just a stereotype.

You probably don't know about many intelligent kids at your school, because well... they aren't socially inept. I've found out a few people were really smart, while I would not have guessed it at first AT ALL. Some people just don't expect others to be smart if they seem "normal" in social situations.

 

[Blahness]

Stereotype?

I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding, then.

Anyway, any other notations on the education part of education?


If not, then... does anyone have thoughts about school rules, or non-educational beliefs of teachers/staff?

 

[ShawnD]

If not, then... does anyone have thoughts about school rules, or non-educational beliefs of teachers/staff?

I have a theory for school in general: have stricter language standards for who can go to college. I have some people in my classes who don't even know english. Is that safe to have in a chemistry lab? For one lab, we were dealing with sodium cyanide. Mix that with any acid, and everybody in the chemisty lab dies; yes I'm serious. Would you feel safe knowing that your life is in the hands of people who may or may not be able to understand the instructions saying not to mix it with acid? I was more than ready to shove people out of my way if I had to run for the door that day...

 

[moose]

I have a theory for school in general: have stricter language standards for who can go to college. I have some people in my classes who don't even know english. Is that safe to have in a chemistry lab? For one lab, we were dealing with sodium cyanide. Mix that with any acid, and everybody in the chemisty lab dies; yes I'm serious. Would you feel safe knowing that your life is in the hands of people who may or may not be able to understand the instructions saying not to mix it with acid? I was more than ready to shove people out of my way if I had to run for the door that day...

I don't agree with this statement. I believe that people who don't know english should never get a job here, but should be able to go to college if they are smart. I would rather see stricter math standards...

 

[ShawnD]

The problem is that they never appear to be smart if they can't communicate. You could be as smart as Tesla over in Russia but if you mixed acid with sodium cyanide and killed everybody in the lab, you're not smarter than the dumbest person alive before you.

 

[Blahness]

Math standards are also all over the place. People going into college should pass a test on at LEAST:

Arithmetic
Algebra
Geometry
Trigonometry(spx.x)

At MINIMUM. And make the tests at least half-way thought inducing!

Anyway, since I'm hounding this topic, any other behavioural ideas?

1 last notation: In a few days, i'll start bouncing ideas of possible fixes for school systems, to see the possible legitimancy for them.

Thank yeh,
~Blah

 

[JasonRox]

The problem is that they never appear to be smart if they can't communicate. You could be as smart as Tesla over in Russia but if you mixed acid with sodium cyanide and killed everybody in the lab, you're not smarter than the dumbest person alive before you.

Are you paranoid about dieing in the lab?

If not, you certainly sound VERY PARANOID!

 

[ShawnD]

Who wouldn't be paranoid about dying in the lab. Cyanide is a colorless gas that acts like the supercharged version of carbon monoxide. Kill you real quick

Last week the foreigner from china completely destroyed a Thermal Conductivity Detector (TCD) in one of the Gas Chromatographs (GC) because she turned off the carrier gas before turning off the detector. It may have been a simple mistake, but I think it has more to do with her not understanding English. If I'm not able to explain anything to her, what chance does the instructor have? I really hope that $2000 piece of equipment goes on her tab.