Pulley system on rough surface.

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a pulley system with two blocks, one on a rough surface and the other hanging. The goal is to find the acceleration of the block of mass M, considering the coefficients of friction between the blocks and between the block and the ground.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationships between the accelerations of the blocks, questioning whether the vertical acceleration of the smaller block equals the horizontal acceleration of the larger block. There are attempts to clarify the roles of tension forces and normal reactions in the system.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the forces and accelerations involved. Some have provided insights into the relationships between the blocks' movements, while others have pointed out potential inconsistencies in the notation and assumptions made by the original poster.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the notation for normal forces and the assumptions about the accelerations of the blocks. Participants are also addressing the implications of the string's configuration on the system's dynamics.

Buffu
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Homework Statement


[/B]
Question :- Find the acceleration of block of mass ##M##. The coefficient of friction between blocks is ##\mu_1## and between block and ground is ##\mu_2##.

free body diagram at the end.

Variables :-
##f_1## - friction between blocks.
##f_2## - friction between block and ground.
##N_2## - Normal reaction between blocks.
##N_1## - Normal reaction between block and ground.
##T## - Tension in the string.
##a## - acceleration of the blocks since string is in-extendable.
##M < m##

Homework Equations



Since small block will move down, and big one right.
$$ma = mg - (f_1 + T) \qquad (1)$$
$$T - (N_2 + f_2) = Ma \qquad (2)$$
$$N = Mg + f_1 \qquad (3)$$

If big block moves right then, pulleys will move right and small block will move right. Thus big block is non inertial frame. So we add the adequate pseudoforces to balance out unbalanced forces.

##N_2 = ma \qquad (4)##

The Attempt at a Solution



##(1) + (2)##

$$a = mg - f_1 - N_2 - f_2 $$

$$a = mg - N_2 - ( f_2 + f_1 )$$

$$a = mg - N_2 - ( \mu_1 N_2 + N_1 \mu_2 )$$

substituting ##(3)## and ##(4)##

$$a(m + M) = mg - ma-(ma\mu_1 + \mu_2(Mg + f_1))$$
$$a(2m + M + \mu_1) = mg - \mu_2(Mg + ma\mu_1)$$
$$a(m(2 + \mu_1 + \mu_1 \mu_2) + M) = g(m - \mu_2 M)$$
$$a = {g(m - \mu_2 M)\over (m(2 + \mu_1 + \mu_1 \mu_2) + M)}$$

But the given answer is ##a = {[2m - \mu_2(M + m)]g\over M + m[5 + 2(\mu_1 + \mu_2)]}##.
I think the given solution is incorrect, because i can't find any error in my calculations but i am not sure.
Please check my free body diagrams in the picture below and my equations. I think any error in those would be sufficient for me to proceed ahead.

My kindest Thanks for your time and help.

asdaasf.png
 
Last edited:
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Is it correct to assume that the vertical acceleration of m equals the horizontal acceleration of M?
 
Buffu said:
N2 - Normal reaction between blocks.
N1- Normal reaction between block and ground.
Did you mean those the other way around? It's a bit inconsistent with the other suffixes.
Buffu said:
a - acceleration of the blocks
Their horizontal accelerations are the same, clearly, but what about the vertical acceleration of m?

TSny beat me to it.
 
I believe you are missing some of the tension forces T that act on the big block M.
 
TSny said:
Is it correct to assume that the vertical acceleration of m equals the horizontal acceleration of M?

I think vertical acceleration will also be ##a##.

Let total length of string be ##x## and displacement of smaller block be ##u## and bigger block be ##p## in some time ##t##.
So,

$$u + p = x$$
$${(du)^2\over dt^2} + {(dp)^2\over dt^2} = {(dx)^2\over dt^2}$$
$$\text{vertical acceleration of m} + \text{horizontal acceleration of M} = 0$$
$$\text{vertical acceleration of m} = -a$$
if we take magnitude, then ##\text{vertical acceleration of m} = a##

May you please point my mistake ?
haruspex said:
Did you mean those the other way around? It's a bit inconsistent with the other suffixes.

Their horizontal accelerations are the same, clearly, but what about the vertical acceleration of m?

TSny beat me to it.

Sorry for inconsistency. I wrote what i mean, did not mean it other way.
 
Buffu said:
Let total length of string be xxx and displacement of smaller block be uuu and bigger block be p
There are two horizontal strings that change length, but only one vertical.
 
Buffu said:
Let total length of string be ##x## and displacement of smaller block be ##u## and bigger block be ##p## in some time ##t##.
So,

$$u + p = x$$
$${(du)^2\over dt^2} + {(dp)^2\over dt^2} = {(dx)^2\over dt^2}$$
$$\text{vertical acceleration of m} + \text{horizontal acceleration of M} = 0$$
I don't follow this. The string can be broken into four sections as shown
upload_2016-10-21_15-51-45.png
 
TSny said:
I don't follow this. The string can be broken into four sections as shown
View attachment 107810

So should it be like this :-

$$L_1 + L_2 + L_3 + L_4 = x$$
$${d(L_1)\over dt^2} + {d(L_2)\over dt^2} + {d(L_3)\over dt^2} + {d(L_4)\over dt^2} = {d(x)\over dt^2} $$
$${d(L_1)\over dt^2} + 0 + 2{d(L_3)\over dt^2} = 0$$
$$\text{vertical acceleration of m} + 2\text{horizontal acceleration of M} = 0$$
$$\text{vertical acceleration of m} = |2\text{horizontal acceleration of M}| $$
$$\text{vertical acceleration of m} = |2a| $$
 
Yes, that looks good. (Your notation for second derivatives is a bit off.)
 
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