PVC vs Copper Pipe Thermal Conductivity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around comparing the thermal conductivity of 100' lengths of 4" PVC pipe and copper pipe, particularly in the context of heat transfer with air inside the pipes and surrounding mediums like Earth and water. Participants explore the implications of turbulence and seek to determine equivalent lengths of copper pipe that would match the thermal performance of the PVC pipe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the equivalent length of copper pipe that would match the thermal performance of 100' of PVC pipe, considering the thermal conductivities of the materials involved.
  • Another participant notes that the problem involves three modes of heat transfer: natural convection, conduction through the pipes, and internal forced convection of air, suggesting that these factors complicate the comparison.
  • There is a mention of the significant difference in thermal conductivities between copper and PVC, which could affect heat transfer rates considerably.
  • Participants discuss the need for an initial air temperature to calculate properties relevant to forced convection.
  • One participant clarifies that they are assuming an air temperature of 90°F for calculations.
  • Another participant requests more details about the setup and objectives of the project to provide a more tailored response.
  • Wall thicknesses for both copper and PVC pipes are provided, which may influence the calculations of heat transfer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specific equivalent lengths of copper pipe needed, and the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views and approaches presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of heat transfer calculations, including dependencies on various factors such as temperature, wall thickness, and flow conditions, which remain unresolved.

Flyfisherman
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Question#1 I would like to compare a 100' length of 4" PVC pipe with air in it surrounded by Earth and/or water. What length of 4" copper pipe would equal a 100' length of PVC?
Question#2 If the inside of the pipe had turbulence what length of non-turbulent 100' PVC 4" pipe would it equal?

I do not know the equations that is why I am on this site. The EngineeringToolBox website states that copper is 400, PVC is .19, Earth is 1.5 and water is .58 thermal conductivity (k). The Earth and/or water surrounding the tube is 65°F Turbulence creates a ballpark of a 40% increase in heat transfer. I also read that water surrounding a tube is 4x times faster at transferring heat than the earth.

I appreciate any help as I am not an engineer.
 
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It is a relatively complex answer to this question. You have 3 modes of heat transfer occurring. Natural convection on the outisde of the pipe due to no motion of the earth/water. This could be ignored if it is assumed that the rate of heat transfer is such that the outer surface of the pipe is kept constant at the given temperature. Secondly you have conduction through the pipes. Thirdly the internal forced convection of the air inside the pipes.

When you ask for the same length do you mean what length of pipe would result in the same net heat transfer to the internal fluid flow?

The rates of heat transfer are going greatly different due to the factor of 1000 difference in thermal conductivities. An initial temperature for the air would be required in order to get the air properties.

Internal forced convection: Q=hAs(Ts-Tair)
Conduction Q=kAs(dt/dx)
 
Yes, what length of copper pipe would equal 100' of PVC pipe?
We will assume the air temperature in the pipe is starting at 90°F.
 
Any others out there that can help on this?
 
Too open ended a question to answer in a few lines . Can you tell us more about the actual set up and what you are trying to achieve with this project ?
 
The air can be stagnate or flow through depending on what is easier to calculate. I am trying to figure out what length of copper pipe will equal x length of PVC pipe. I set 100' of 4" PVC pipe as an example.
 
.115 wall thickness for copper and .237 wall thickness for PVC
 

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