Quantized electron orbits in Bohmian mechanics

In summary: So an accelerated charge in Bohmian mechanics does not radiate.Mentor says: Several posts leading to an off-topic digression about whether Bohmian interpretations are valid have been removed.
  • #1
bluecap
396
13
I entered in physicsforums archive search the wildcards "bohmian why electrons don't lose energy atom" but only got one hit that isn't related to it. In Bohmian mechanics, electron is localized and has trajectory.. why can't it lose energy as it rotates around the nucleus? What wildcard words must I enter to read previous answer about it? Or can anyone answer it?
 
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  • #2
The electron position in Bohmian mechanics does not matter, the radiation depends on the wave function only.
Waves act on particles, but those don't act back on waves.
 
  • #3
mfb said:
The electron position in Bohmian mechanics does not matter, the radiation depends on the wave function only.
Waves act on particles, but those don't act back on waves.

What? In classical mechanics.. moving charges lose energy. What do you mean by "radiation"? radiation of what? The particle in Bohmian is localized.. so as the pilot wave rotate around the nucleus.. the localized particle also rotate around the nucleus.. does it not? Hence should lose energy.
 
  • #4
bluecap said:
What do you mean by "radiation"? radiation of what?
Electronmagnetic radiation. The process of the energy loss.
bluecap said:
In classical mechanics.. moving charges lose energy.
Accelerated charges, not moving. Yes, but this is not classical mechanics, so you should not expect classical mechanics to apply.
 
  • #5
mfb said:
Electronmagnetic radiation. The process of the energy loss.Accelerated charges, not moving. Yes, but this is not classical mechanics, so you should not expect classical mechanics to apply.

So what you were stating was "the electromagnetic radiation depends on the wave function only".. but this is in Copenhagen where particles are the wave function. In Bohmian, the particles are not the wave function, the particles are particles and the wave function is the pilot wave.. therefore you can't use the facts in Copenhagen to say it is the pilot wave that is accelerating.. shouldn't they be the localized particles?
 
  • #6
bluecap said:
So what you were stating was "the electromagnetic radiation depends on the wave function only".. but this is in Copenhagen where particles are the wave function.
It is true in all interpretations. It is usually called pilot wave in Bohmian mechanics instead of wave function, but that is just a different name. The particle position is irrelevant for interactions. It simply does not appear in the equations for those interactions.
 
  • #7
mfb said:
It is true in all interpretations. It is usually called pilot wave in Bohmian mechanics instead of wave function, but that is just a different name. The particle position is irrelevant for interactions. It simply does not appear in the equations for those interactions.

So currents in Bohmian is produced by moving pilot wave and not moving particles...
so what is the relevance of particle position? What properties does it give ...
 
  • #8
In measurements, it picks one outcome which is considered as "the universe", the other ("possible") outcomes can be discarded after decoherence. Instead of random chance like for collapse interpretations, the measurement result is deterministic and depends on the unknown initial position of the particle.
 
  • #9
mfb said:
In measurements, it picks one outcome which is considered as "the universe", the other ("possible") outcomes can be discarded after decoherence. Instead of random chance like for collapse interpretations, the measurement result is deterministic and depends on the unknown initial position of the particle.

Are what you were saying the original concept in Bohmian Mechanics? Or updated concept by other authors? I thought the pilot wave pulled on the particle like a string or a horse on the cart, so the particle is the one with accelerating charges.
 
  • #10
Mentor says: Several posts leading to an off-topic digression about whether Bohmian interpretations are valid have been removed. There's a question in the first post of this thread; try to stick with it.
 
  • #11
bluecap said:
I entered in physicsforums archive search the wildcards "bohmian why electrons don't lose energy atom" but only got one hit that isn't related to it. In Bohmian mechanics, electron is localized and has trajectory.. why can't it lose energy as it rotates around the nucleus? What wildcard words must I enter to read previous answer about it? Or can anyone answer it?
In classical mechanics, an accelerated charge radiates. But Bohmian mechanics is not classical mechanics. Classical particles have a direct influence on the electromagnetic field (the influence is described by the inhomogeneous Maxwell equations), which is why they radiate. Bohmian particles do not have such influence on the electromagnetic field.
 
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1. What is Bohmian mechanics?

Bohmian mechanics is a theoretical framework in quantum mechanics that proposes an ontological interpretation of quantum phenomena. It suggests that particles have definite positions and trajectories, and that their behavior is governed by a pilot wave.

2. How does Bohmian mechanics explain quantized electron orbits?

In Bohmian mechanics, the electron's orbit is determined by the interaction between the electron's position and the pilot wave. The pilot wave acts as a guiding force, causing the electron to follow a specific path. This results in quantized electron orbits, where the electron's position is confined to specific energy levels.

3. What is the role of the pilot wave in Bohmian mechanics?

The pilot wave is a crucial component of Bohmian mechanics, as it determines the behavior of particles. It is a non-local and deterministic guiding force that influences the motion of particles in quantum systems.

4. How does Bohmian mechanics differ from other interpretations of quantum mechanics?

Bohmian mechanics differs from other interpretations, such as the Copenhagen interpretation, in that it proposes an ontological explanation for quantum phenomena. It also does not require the use of wavefunction collapse to explain measurement outcomes.

5. What are the implications of Bohmian mechanics for our understanding of the quantum world?

Bohmian mechanics challenges the traditional view of quantum mechanics and suggests that particles have well-defined trajectories, contrary to the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics. It also raises questions about the role of consciousness and the observer in quantum phenomena.

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