Quantum Fluctuations: Origins Explored

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the origins of quantum fluctuations, exploring their nature within the framework of quantum mechanics and Quantum Field Theory (QFT). Participants examine the implications of these fluctuations, particularly in relation to energy conservation and the statistical nature of quantum systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that quantum fluctuations are a by-product of Quantum Field Theory (QFT).
  • Others argue that quantum mechanics inherently involves statistical (non-deterministic) behavior, leading to fluctuations in any statistical system.
  • A participant questions whether quantum fluctuations violate the conservation of energy, prompting responses that assert they do not.
  • One participant explains that if quantum particles were merely classical particles with randomized properties, energy conservation would be violated, but the actual formalism preserves energy.
  • Another participant mentions the concept of virtual and real particles in relation to energy conservation.
  • One participant shares their ongoing efforts to understand QFT and recommends a book that they find helpful.
  • Another participant discusses the challenges of renormalization in QFT, highlighting issues like infinite energy in the no particle state and the need for cut-offs in theories.
  • A participant describes the stochastic nature of energy measurements in quantum systems, arguing that while individual measurements may vary, the average value remains conserved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of quantum fluctuations for energy conservation, with some asserting that no violation occurs while others raise concerns. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the deeper implications of QFT and the nature of energy in quantum systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of QFT and the complexities surrounding concepts like renormalization and energy measurement in quantum mechanics.

Mayank_Jha
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How do quantum fluctuations originate?
 
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Quantum mechanics says that nature is intrinsically statistical (non-deterministic) and any statistical system is subject to fluctuations.
 
Einj said:
Quantum mechanics says that nature is intrinsically statistical (non-deterministic) and any statistical system is subject to fluctuations.

But don't quantum fluctuations violate the conservation of energy?
 
No, they don't. That to me is one of the amazing things about the formalism.

If quantum particles were just like classical particles except with slightly randomized position and momentum then the energy would not be conserved. But the way that it actually works conserves energy.
 
DaleSpam said:
No, they don't. That to me is one of the amazing things about the formalism.

If quantum particles were just like classical particles except with slightly randomized position and momentum then the energy would not be conserved. But the way that it actually works conserves energy.

So you're talking about virtual particles and real particles alike?
 
Mayank_Jha said:
How do quantum fluctuations originate?

Its a by-product of Quantum Field Theory (QFT)

It's a subject I have been making attempts to really understand for a while - I have gone through some books but not to the depth I personally would like.

Recently I have come across a VERY good book that is just at the right level for me, and am enjoying going through it right now:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/019969933X/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Highly recommend it.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:
bhobba said:
Its a by-product of Quantum Field Theory (QFT)

It's a subject I have been making attempts to really understand for a while - I have gone through some books but not to the depth I personally would like.

Recently I have come across a VERY good book that is just at the right level for me, and am enjoying going through it right now:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/019969933X/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Highly recommend it.

Thanks
Bill


Any insights, if you could state some?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mayank_Jha said:
Any insights, if you could state some?

Not from that book because I am going through it now.

But from my previous readings there is a deep sickness in QFT that has to be resolved by what is called renormalisation at all levels.

Right at the start you get an infinite energy for the so called no particle state which is blatantly absurd. So you need to have a cut-off and say our theories are true only up to a certain energy.

To me that is very deep and profound. This is the modern version of how we look at renormalisation:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-th/0212049.pdf

The above paper I have studied to a level I am happy with, and believe is a very deep insight about fundamental physics.

Thanks
Bill
 
Mayank_Jha said:
How do quantum fluctuations originate?
Do you know this article by Matt Strassler ?

Patrick
 
  • #10
Mayank_Jha said:
But don't quantum fluctuations violate the conservation of energy?

Let's say we have an ensemble of similarly prepared systems. If we make a measurement of the energy of each system then in general we will get a different answer because the energy is stochastic.

But this doesn't mean there is a violation of energy conservation because such a violation entails that the system actually possesses a definite energy that changes discontinuously which is not what we have here; rather we have a system with an inherently probabilistic value of energy that isn't known until we make a measurement.

And if we make measurements on a sufficiently large ensemble then eventually the measurements of energy will converge towards the average value. QM states that this average value, or "expectation value", will remain conserved.
 

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