Quantum gravity and Casimir effect

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between quantum gravity and the Casimir effect, exploring whether massive bodies influence quantum fluctuations in their vicinity, potentially mimicking the Casimir effect on a larger scale. The scope includes theoretical considerations and speculative reasoning regarding quantum gravity and its implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Allan proposes that massive bodies might reduce baseline quantum fluctuations nearby, suggesting this could draw objects towards regions of reduced fluctuations, similar to the Casimir effect.
  • One participant argues that the question cannot be answered definitively due to the hypothesis status of quantum gravity and the lack of experimental evidence for its quantization.
  • This participant also notes that the Casimir-Polder force is a quantum-electrodynamical correction to the London-dispersion force, which they claim is not mysterious and generally negligible.
  • Another participant suggests that it might be possible to indirectly check the relationship between null point energies and gravitational field strengths.
  • A later reply reiterates the uncertainty surrounding quantum gravity, while also asserting that there is strong evidence for the quantization of gravity, citing the existence of gravitational waves as a significant factor.
  • This participant connects gravitational waves to the concept of energy quanta in the gravitational field, proposing that this could imply the existence of gravitons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the quantization of gravity and the implications of the Casimir effect, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the lack of experimental evidence for quantum gravity and the complexity of its equations, which may not be solvable. There are also discussions about the nature of forces involved in the Casimir effect and the conditions under which they operate.

AlSo
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Just a crazy thought, does a massive body actually reduce baseline quantum fluctuations nearby (compared with the outer space which has much more baseline fluctuations), thus mimicking Casimir effect on a much larger scale and draws things towards a region having a reduced quantum fluctuations? Regards Allan
 
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That question cannot be answered:
1) For all practical purposes, "quantum gravity" must be considered as an hypothesis. There is no experimental evidence, at all, that gravity is in fact quantized. And even if it was, the concrete form of its equations would not be known (and might not be solvable if they were known). Both of those would be required ingredients to answer your question.

2) There is this crazy notion that the Casimir-Polder force is caused by mysterious vacuum fluctutations. Note that this force is only a quantum-electrodynamical *correction* to the London-dispersion force between neutral atoms/molecules/objects[1] (which is not mysterious at all). This QED effect is in almost all situations completely negligible.

[1] The title of the original publication even says so: http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v73/i4/p360_1
 
thanks cgk, can we indirectly check this by comparing the null point energies in relation to gravitational field strengths?
 
cgk said:
That question cannot be answered:
1) For all practical purposes, "quantum gravity" must be considered as an hypothesis. There is no experimental evidence, at all, that gravity is in fact quantized. And even if it was, the concrete form of its equations would not be known (and might not be solvable if they were known). Both of those would be required ingredients to answer your question.

Even though it doesn't change the answer to the question, this point is somewhat misleading in the fact that there is very strong evidence to believe gravity is quantized. Because ofhttp://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/psr1913.htm, it is now accepted that gravitational waves exist. The pulsars radiated energy in a way that was predicted by general relativity, and this was the main factor behind the 1993 Nobel Prize in Physics.

Gravitational waves have a frequency given by [itex]f = \frac {c} { \lambda}[/itex]. From Planck's law, [itex]E = fh[/itex], we know that a wave with a frequency f has an energy quanta proportional to f by Planck's constant. This energy quanta would, of course, be the quantization of the gravitational field, the graviton.
 

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