Quarantine takes toll on alcoholics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the impact of quarantine measures on individuals with alcohol dependency, particularly focusing on withdrawal symptoms and the availability of alcohol during lockdowns. Participants explore various responses to the closure of bars and liquor stores, including illegal brewing and alternative sources of alcohol, as well as the potential health risks associated with sudden cessation of alcohol consumption.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern over serious withdrawal symptoms faced by individuals unable to access alcohol due to lockdown measures.
  • There are claims that liquor stores are deemed essential in many regions, allowing continued access to alcohol, particularly in the US.
  • Others argue that not all areas have the same policies regarding liquor store operations, with some states closing them entirely.
  • Participants discuss the potential dangers of abruptly cutting off alcohol for those with dependency issues, referencing conditions like delirium tremens.
  • Some suggest that individuals may resort to illegal brewing or using alternative substances when alcohol is unavailable.
  • There are mentions of varying availability of alcohol in different countries, with some allowing purchases in grocery stores while others do not.
  • Concerns are raised about the health implications of sudden cessation of alcohol consumption and how healthcare providers might manage such situations.
  • One participant shares their personal experience of going cold turkey and the challenges faced during the quarantine.
  • Some participants note that not all heavy drinkers are alcoholics, suggesting a genetic component to addiction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the best approach to managing alcohol dependency during quarantine, with multiple competing views regarding the availability of alcohol and the implications of its absence.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of clarity regarding the specific regulations in different regions, as well as the varying definitions of alcoholism and dependency. The discussion also highlights the complexities of healthcare access during lockdowns, particularly for those with alcohol dependency.

GiriBang
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Summary:: Seriousness of withdrawal symptoms

Since, the people who went to buy alcohol didn't follow social distancing, all the bars were shut down.
As a result, many committed suicide, some started brewing alcohols illegally, some like this v
https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...alternatives-prove-fatal-in-tamil-nadu/350176
Most important of all some started facing serious withdrawal symptoms. So, what can be done to help them?
 
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GiriBang said:
Summary:: Seriousness of withdrawal symptoms

Since, the people who went to buy alcohol didn't follow social distancing, all the bars were shut down.
As a result, many committed suicide, some started brewing alcohols illegally, some like this v
https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...alternatives-prove-fatal-in-tamil-nadu/350176
Most important of all some started facing serious withdrawal symptoms. So, what can be done to help them?
Liquor stores are open (deemed essential) in many states.
 
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GiriBang said:
Summary:: Seriousness of withdrawal symptoms

Since, the people who went to buy alcohol didn't follow social distancing, all the bars were shut down.
As a result, many committed suicide, some started brewing alcohols illegally, some like this v
https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...alternatives-prove-fatal-in-tamil-nadu/350176
Most important of all some started facing serious withdrawal symptoms. So, what can be done to help them?
That might be the case in some countries, but not all. In the US, liquor stores are still considered essential.

In New Zealand, purchase of beer and wine are still allowed in grocery stores.

In your country, that is something you'd need to bring up to the powers controlling things as to the wiseness of abruptly cutting off something that could cause problems and even death. I once saw an episode on TV where an alcoholic who could not get alcohol and was cut off cold turkey died from the abrupt cut off, it's called delirium tremens.
 
Dr. Courtney said:
That's true in some states, but not in all:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/co...stores-while-others-allow-cocktail-deliveries
That's shameful and a complete disregard for the health/life of people used to drinking high amounts of alcohol. For medical reasons, you CANNOT just shut off their supply of alcohol.

Also, not all people that drink large quantities of alcohol, even on a daily basis are alcoholics. It's in the genes, I guess like addiction to drugs, how one person can take drugs and not get addicted while another taking the same amount gets addicted.

At least in the US, if your state bans alcohol, you can just drive to another state that doesn't.

Pennsylvania is the only Cray-cray state to close liquor stores?

According to your article
Last week, Wolf loosened his order a bit and, despite Pennsylvania still being the only state in the nation to totally close its brick-and-mortar liquor stores, allowed residents to purchase alcohol through the Liquor Control Board website and have it delivered to their homes.
 
Evo said:
That's shameful and a complete disregard for the health/life of people used to drinking high amounts of alcohol. For medical reasons, you CANNOT just shut off their supply of alcohol.

Also, not all people that drink large quantities of alcohol, even on a daily basis are alcoholics. It's in the genes, I guess like addiction to drugs, how one person can take drugs and not get addicted while another taking the same amount gets addicted.

At least in the US, if your state bans alcohol, you can just drive to another state that doesn't.
I went cold turkey.
I am not a alcoholic but I drink on a regular basis.
So no pub no socializing so no beer, I've also cut out junk food.
That's my thing.

UK broadly speaking no reports of beer shortages in off licences (liquor stores) or supermarkets so far although there have been some price rises. (Nothing I've seen on the news or from friends regarding shortages yet)

They could use beer left in pubs for registered/ clinical alcoholics but there is the issue of safe distribution

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52199185

Ordering off the net is if that is an option also home brew kits

Agreed that sudden cessation can lead to an unpleasant and or life threatening situation.

I am not sure how a GP would manage that situation. Librium?

Tricky.
 
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pinball1970 said:
I went cold turkey.
I am not a alcoholic but I drink on a regular basis.
So no pub no socializing so no beer, I've also cut out junk food.
That's my thing.

UK broadly speaking no reports of beer shortages in off licences (liquor stores) or supermarkets so far although there have been some price rises. (Nothing I've seen on the news or from friends regarding shortages yet)

They could use beer left in pubs for registered/ clinical alcoholics but there is the issue of safe distribution

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52199185

Ordering off the net is if that is an option also home brew kits

Agreed that sudden cessation can lead to an unpleasant and or life threatening situation.

I am not sure how a GP would manage that situation. Librium?

Tricky.
Well, only one state closed liquor stores, but offered online sales, also there was easy access to nearby states. So, as I said, liquor stores in the US are considered essential.
 
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Evo said:
Well, only one state closed liquor stores, but offered online sales, also there was easy access to nearby states. So, as I said, liquor stores in the US are considered essential.
I thought more than just PA had closed but guess I was wrong. Anyway, counties near the PA line have started requiring proof of local citizenship because hoards of PA folks were swamping the stores and not even pretending to keep social distance.
 
  • #10
Evo said:
Well, only one state closed liquor stores, but offered online sales, also there was easy access to nearby states. So, as I said, liquor stores in the US are considered essential.
Off licenses here rarely just have alcohol. They tend to sell bits of everything/essentials. Food some toiletries and basic medicines (pain killers, cough medicine etc)
Biggest issue here is actually getting to see a Dr face to face. Most appointments now are via phone unless emergency so I am not sure. how an alcoholic would fit in, in terms of priorities I do not know.
 
  • #11
pinball1970 said:
I am not a alcoholic but I drink on a regular basis.
Haha. I love that. That's my new line. I'm actually drinking a vodka tonic right now. I stocked up on a few gallons of Burnetts vodka to get through the caronavirus ordeal. I even bought a bunch of oatmeal and pasta and canned goods. Got in there too late for toilet paper, hand sanitizer, and condensed milk. But now they are back on the shelves. Whatever..

I think the doomsday preppers are laughing at us. Maybe deservedly so. I never owned a firearm because I thought there was a much higher probability that I would actually kill myself or a loved one in a friendly fire accident than disabling an intruder. But now I am going to buy one (maybe two) I think a handgun and a rifle, or a shotgun. Plus, I'm going to buy a camera surveillance system, maybe blink or ring?

BTW, Hi Evo.
 
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  • #12
DiracPool said:
Haha. I love that. That's my new line. I'm actually drinking a vodka tonic right now. I stocked up on a few gallons of Burnetts vodka to get through the caronavirus ordeal. I even bought a bunch of oatmeal and pasta and canned goods. Got in there too late for toilet paper, hand sanitizer, and condensed milk. But now they are back on the shelves. Whatever..

I think the doomsday preppers are laughing at us. Maybe deservedly so. I never owned a firearm because I thought there was a much higher probability that I would actually kill myself or a loved one in a friendly fire accident than disabling an intruder. But now I am going to buy one (maybe two) I think a handgun and a rifle, or a shotgun. Plus, I'm going to buy a camera surveillance system, maybe blink or ring?

BTW, Hi Evo.
It's not a line!

I think I may have had some issues by now if I was dependent. Perhaps you can start a new thread on that

My friends stocked up on beer whilst I was running round trying to find canned goods pasta bread and long life milk for my mother and sister.

I managed to get pasta yesterday for the first time since lock down at the local shop.

Wine beer and spirits shelves not empty at any point.
 
  • #13
DiracPool said:
BTW, Hi Evo.
HI! I haven't been allowed to go shopping the last few weeks by my daughter, so I don't know what's actually on the shelves, although my neighbor said except for TP and paper towels, hand sanitizer. etc..., the store is pretty well stocked. He didn't know if they had flour yet because he hadn't looked for that, haven't been able to find flour for the last month!
 
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  • #14
phinds said:
I thought more than just PA had closed but guess I was wrong. Anyway, counties near the PA line have started requiring proof of local citizenship because hoards of PA folks were swamping the stores and not even pretending to keep social distance.
If you prohibit something, you create an instant desire to buy it. STUPID!
 
  • #15
Evo said:
If you prohibit something, you create an instant desire to buy it. STUPID!
No argument there, but most liquor stores are fairly small places and the isles are not wide at all, so having very many people in one removes any likelihood of social distancing. I'm sure the gov. of PA means well.
 
  • #16
phinds said:
No argument there, but most liquor stores are fairly small places and the isles are not wide at all, so having very many people in one removes any likelihood of social distancing. I'm sure the gov. of PA means well.
Well, other states had them set up stands in the parking lot. Luckily, my store already had a drive thru window.
 
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  • #17
Evo said:
If you prohibit something, you create an instant desire to buy it. STUPID!

Not just buying. You should have seen all the people on the lake the day before we thought they might close the boat ramps. Fortunately, GA did not follow the example of SC and WA. Still making groceries at the lake today.
DSCN1426 (2).JPG
 
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  • #18
Dr. Courtney said:
Not just buying. You should have seen all the people on the lake the day before we thought they might close the boat ramps. Fortunately, GA did not follow the example of SC and WA. Still making groceries at the lake today.
View attachment 260669
Nice fish!

I miss going fishing and crabbing with my mother.
 
  • #20
Evo said:
For medical reasons, you CANNOT just shut off their supply of alcohol.
If I remember correctly, alcohol is one of the comparatively few drug types that when going "cold turkey" can actually be deadly. There is another drug type that is quite common, where going "cold turkey" can be deadly, but I don't remember which it was.
 
  • #21
Evo said:
HI! I haven't been allowed to go shopping the last few weeks by my daughter, so I don't know what's actually on the shelves, although my neighbor said except for TP and paper towels, hand sanitizer. etc..., the store is pretty well stocked. He didn't know if they had flour yet because he hadn't looked for that, haven't been able to find flour for the last month!

It's crazy what people covet in an emergency?! I don't get it. In my undergrad years at the frat, we used to run out of toilet paper all the time. No prob, just jump in the shower? Why so important now?
 
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  • #22
Evo said:
Pennsylvania is the only Cray-cray state to close liquor stores?
Note that as of a couple of years ago we can buy limited amounts of beer and wine in grocery stores. So you can still drink, if just takes more effort (if you're usually a hard liqueur drinker).
 
  • #23
DennisN said:
If I remember correctly, alcohol is one of the comparatively few drug types that when going "cold turkey" can actually be deadly. There is another drug type that is quite common, where going "cold turkey" can be deadly, but I don't remember which it was.
Benzodiazapines? Probably heroin too
 
  • #24
Except for Guinness I got for my birthday, I am only buying Corona beer now.
If I could go to a bar (closed) it would be: "I'll have a Corona, hold the virus".

Liquor stores are still open here, and so are the pot shops.

People going into an alcoholic withdrawal may have to go into the hospital. Some die.
Heroin (and maybe other opiates) is another drug that can have lethal withdrawal consequences.
 
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  • #25
pinball1970 said:
Benzodiazapines?
That was one of the types I thought of, but I wasn't sure I remembered correctly, so I didn't want to say it. :smile: I'm rarely here in the Biology/Medical forum, I just happened to stray in here and see this thread. :smile:
 
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  • #26
The cannabis stores are open in Quebec and Ontario, and most likely in other Canadian provinces as well. So are the liquor stores. But all are closed on Sundays.
 
  • #27
BillTre said:
People going into an alcoholic withdrawal may have to go into the hospital. Some die.
Heroin (and maybe other opiates) is another drug that can have lethal withdrawal consequences.

You are such an amatuer, my friend Bill. I, having been a party casualty of the 80's have been through all of these withdrawals hundreds of times.

The myth that chronic alcoholics undergoing withdrawal or detox and having seizures is largely a myth. The current thinking is that this is a very small minority of people who have some genetic disposition for this. As far as opiate addiction, I've been there too. Practically, nobody ever died from heroin withdrawal, although they wished they were dead while undergoing it. Check it out.

As far as the benzos, I heard that detox was dangerous so I never really developed a habit with those.
 
  • #28
Well I know a guy who was in the hospital for several weeks last year, and was in danger of dying, due to alcohol detox. (Arrested after a drunk driving incident).
I used to drink a far amount, but not like that guy.
You may not have been addicted enough to alcohol for these affects.
 
  • #29
Evo said:
HI! I haven't been allowed to go shopping the last few weeks by my daughter, so I don't know what's actually on the shelves, although my neighbor said except for TP and paper towels, hand sanitizer. etc..., the store is pretty well stocked. He didn't know if they had flour yet because he hadn't looked for that, haven't been able to find flour for the last month!

Fortunately for me, I'm on the ketogenic diet, I haven't seen a bag of flour in years. I have no idea why in a viral pandemic people would make a run on bleached flour. haha.
 
  • #30
DiracPool said:
Fortunately for me, I'm on the ketogenic diet, I haven't seen a bag of flour in years. I have no idea why in a viral pandemic people would make a run on bleached flour. haha.
Heavy drinkers, alcoholics and regular social drinkers who consume sensible units and cut down when they need to stocked up on beer and home brew kits.
Others may have envisaged a bread shortage stocked up on brewers yeast and flour.
I hit the shops for tuna and pasta but was too late by a week or so.

I had to settle for all the expensive and instant noodles that have a higher fat content.