Quarks & Spin States: Why Identical?

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    Quarks Spin States
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of quarks, specifically focusing on the requirement that identical quarks must be in identical spin states. Participants explore the implications of this requirement in the context of hadrons, color confinement, and the nature of wavefunctions in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that any pair of similar quarks must be in identical spin states, questioning the implications of this statement.
  • One participant clarifies that examples like |uu>, |ss>, and |dd> indicate that spins must point in the same direction within hadrons.
  • Another participant raises a question about the symmetry requirements of mesons, suggesting that the spin-space wavefunction must be antisymmetric to maintain overall symmetry.
  • Several participants discuss the implications of the spin-statistics theorem, noting that the wavefunction of a hadron must be antisymmetric under the exchange of two identical quarks.
  • There is mention of the necessity for hadrons to be color singlets, leading to discussions about the symmetry of the wavefunction in terms of flavor, spin, and position.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding composite systems of quarks and their exchange symmetry, highlighting the complexity of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the relationship between quark spin states and the symmetry of wavefunctions, with no consensus reached on the implications of these properties in composite systems.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of symmetry and the complexities introduced by composite systems of quarks, which may not exhibit straightforward exchange symmetry.

vertices
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According to my notes "any pair of similar quarks must be in identical spin states". What is the reason for this?
 
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Hi
vertices said:
According to my notes "any pair of similar quarks must be in identical spin states". What is the reason for this?
Very unclear. I do not expect the quark spin states in your left leg to be anyhow related to my grandmother's right arm quark spin states. So, which pairs are you talking about ?
 
for example |uu>, |ss>, |dd>... the spins must be pointing in the same direction.

even in hadrons, you can't have for example, the state |uus> having spins pointing |up-down-up> (the spins of u quarks have to be pointing in the same direction).
 
Last edited:
can I ask another question:

due to colour confinement, the colour charge of a given state has to be 0 (a singlet). Therefore, the colour wavefunction is antisymettric.

Now mesons have to be symetric under exchange because they are bosons, right? So the spin-space wavefunction of |quark,anti-quark> has to be antisymetric too for the overall wavefunction to be symetric, right?
 
Quarks are fermions. Two identical quarks are undistinguishable inside a hadron. From the spin-statistics theorem, the "wavefunction" of a hadron in terms of quark and gluon degrees of freedom (assuming we can construct such a thing, although it should exist obviously in principle) must be anti-symmetric under the exchange of two quarks. It is one thing that is postulated, but for which people believe there should be a rigorous demonstration, that all hadrons occurring in Nature as free states must be color singlets. The color part of the wavefunction is therefore antisymmetric. So the rest of the wavefunction, in the space of flavor times spin times position for instance, should be symmetric. Note that the ground state, with the space part being obviously symmetric, has spin times flavor symmetric as well. So for two identical flavor, you get the symmetric spin state you were asking about.
 
humanino said:
Quarks are fermions. Two identical quarks are undistinguishable inside a hadron. From the spin-statistics theorem, the "wavefunction" of a hadron in terms of quark and gluon degrees of freedom (assuming we can construct such a thing, although it should exist obviously in principle) must be anti-symmetric under the exchange of two quarks. It is one thing that is postulated, but for which people believe there should be a rigorous demonstration, that all hadrons occurring in Nature as free states must be color singlets. The color part of the wavefunction is therefore antisymmetric. So the rest of the wavefunction, in the space of flavor times spin times position for instance, should be symmetric. Note that the ground state, with the space part being obviously symmetric, has spin times flavor symmetric as well. So for two identical flavor, you get the symmetric spin state you were asking about.

i see. It just gets a little bit confusing when you consider composite systems of quarks, because ofcourse quarks are fermions but a system of quarks in a given state, may not be - thus a composite state may or may not possesses exchange symettry.

many that humanino:)
 

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