Question about a biosensor for decting coronavirus in saliva or in blood

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential use of advanced imaging technologies, specifically MRI and nanoscale spin detection, for the rapid and reliable detection of the coronavirus in saliva or blood. Participants explore the feasibility of these technologies, their limitations, and possible alternatives in the context of existing detection methods.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the applicability of nanoscale spin detection and MRI imaging for detecting coronavirus, referencing specific technologies and their capabilities.
  • One participant notes that current approved tests for SARS-CoV-2 primarily detect nucleic acid sequences, raising questions about how MRI could differentiate between various virus strains.
  • Another participant highlights the potential for MRI to achieve high resolution (5 nm) but expresses uncertainty about its ability to distinguish the virus's spike shape, which may require even higher resolution (3.5 Å).
  • Concerns are raised about the challenges of detecting low viral loads with MRI, suggesting that longer exposure times may be necessary to achieve reliable results.
  • Participants discuss the need for MRI to not only detect the presence of the virus but also confirm its absence, which could complicate the testing process.
  • There is speculation about the possibility of using different materials for nanoscale sensors, such as semiconductors, instead of diamond-like carbon.
  • Some participants reference the limitations of existing technologies, such as the requirement for cryogenic temperatures in certain magnetic resonance techniques.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reflects a lack of consensus, with multiple competing views on the feasibility and effectiveness of using MRI and nanoscale detection methods for coronavirus detection. Participants express uncertainty regarding the capabilities and limitations of these technologies.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the effectiveness of MRI for virus detection may depend on various factors, including viral load and the resolution required to distinguish specific viral features. There are also unresolved questions about the compatibility of certain technologies with biological applications.

hagopbul
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TL;DR
looking for other method for detection of corona virus
hello all :

there was this technology that i read about maybe a year ago, could it help in better technology fast and reliable method to detect corona virus in saliva or in blood ?

http://web.mit.edu/degenlab/index.html

http://web.mit.edu/degenlab/degenlab_techniques.html

https://spin.ethz.ch/quantum-technology/nsdm.html

is there any technology in biology or medicine that similar to the above technology with other materials other than DLC

regards
hagop
 
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hagopbul said:
Summary:: looking for other method for detection of corona virus

there was this technology that i read about maybe a year ago, could it help in better technology fast and reliable method to detect corona virus in saliva or in blood ?

http://web.mit.edu/degenlab/index.html

http://web.mit.edu/degenlab/degenlab_techniques.html

https://spin.ethz.ch/quantum-technology/nsdm.html

is there any technology in biology or medicine that similar to the above technology with other materials other than DLC
The only approved tests for SARS-CoV-2 are tests that detect a particular nucleic acid sequence (RNA) that is characteristic of that virus. The human body normally harbours an estimated 380 trillion viruses of a number of different strains.

The technology that you have identified is MRI imaging technology. Since all viruses consist of proteins and nucleic acids I am not sure how MRI would be able to distinguish between different strains of viruses normally present in the body.

AM
 
"
One of our main goals is the application of nanoscale spin detection to the 3D imaging of important biological structures by MRI. The main obstacles to these experiments are sensitivity and spatial resolution. Nanomechanical force sensors have, in the latest demonstration experiments, pushed the resolution of MRI to about 5 nm and enabled three-dimensional imaging of individual virus particles (a roughly 1000x improvement compared to conventional MRI techniques).

Our objective is to make these methods more widely applicable and to apply them to 1-100 nm-sized biological objects. Many of these objects are of extraordinary relevance to biology, including, for example, single virus particles, functional cellular units (like the ribosome), or Amyloid fibrils (implicated in Alzheimer’s disease). Our aim is to use Nano-MRI for resolving their superstructure and eventually locating specific functional units using isotopic labeling techniques. Another strategy is the combination with atomistic data from X-ray analysis (that is generally incomplete for large molecules), with the aim of reconstructing full atomic structures."

on the MIT lab website , the C virus is 60 to 160 nm

that is in the rang of their research area , but i don't know if they are able to use other types of materials for the pin i know they are using diamond like carbon with N-vacancies , could there is a way to use some semiconductor material ? anyone heard of any thing like this ? i didnt find on google information other than NIST which they use Diamond Like Carbon also with N-Vacancies
 
Andrew Mason said:
The only approved tests for SARS-CoV-2 are tests that detect a particular nucleic acid sequence (RNA) that is characteristic of that virus. The human body normally harbours an estimated 380 trillion viruses of a number of different strains.

The technology that you have identified is MRI imaging technology. Since all viruses consist of proteins and nucleic acids I am not sure how MRI would be able to distinguish between different strains of viruses normally present in the body.

AM
yes all the viruses consist of proteins

from their website also :

"
Chemical surface identification with nanometer resolution
Local chemical characterization of nanostructured surfaces, especially when working with organic materials like self-assembled monolayers or thin polymer films, is currently very hard or not possible. Due to the chemical specificity of magnetic resonance, it may be possible to apply spectroscopy techniques (like NMR) for exactly that purpose. Our lab’s objective is to adopt such techniques so as to simultaneously image a surface's chemical composition (using spectroscopy), spin density (using Nano-MRI) and topography (using the sensor in force microscopy mode) with nanometer resolution. This application is also very interesting for semiconductor devices as well as for a variety of nanostructured surfaces in material and energy science, like catalysts."

could we study some surface property of the viruses in general ? or appy this for large Protein NMR

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22393/
 
It may be possible to distinguish the SARS-CoV-2 virus based on the shape of its spike which appears to require a resolution of 3.5 Angstroms (.35 nm). So at a resolution of 5 nm that would be a challenge . However, it might be possible to detect that it is a corona virus and that may be sufficient.

Also, if the viral load is low, knowing where to focus the high-resolution MRI scan to locate the virus might be an issue. That is not an issue with RT-PCR.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
Also, if the viral load is low, knowing where to focus the high-resolution MRI scan to locate the virus might be an issue. That is not an issue with RT-PCR.

how fast this method would be relative to RT-PCR ?

if the viral load is small wouldn't that mean longer time exposure to the nano mri ? for example instead of 5 sec , 10 sec ? duo to the fact that lower viral load means longer time to detect ?

BH
 
hagopbul said:
how fast this method would be relative to RT-PCR ?

if the viral load is small wouldn't that mean longer time exposure to the nano mri ? for example instead of 5 sec , 10 sec ? duo to the fact that lower viral load means longer time to detect ?
I think one would have to first understand how the MRI scan detects the virus before comparing it to other tests. Even if MRI can detect the presence of the virus that would not be enough. A useful test has to be able to determine that the virus is NOT present, which means the MRI would have to carefully examine all the virus-size regions in the sample. That strikes me as being a big challenge.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
I think one would have to first understand how the MRI scan detects the virus before comparing it to other tests. Even if MRI can detect the presence of the virus that would not be enough. A useful test has to be able to determine that the virus is NOT present, which means the MRI would have to carefully examine all the virus-size regions in the sample. That strikes me as being a big challenge.

AM

going back to their website

"
Scanning diamond magnetometry
A disadvantage of MRFM is that it only performs well at cryogenic temperatures and in vacuum, which is not compatible with many biological (and other) applications. Therefore we are trying to come up with other ideas that might allow us doing the same experiments under ambient conditions.

In “scanning diamond magnetometry”, we use quantum optics to sense minute magnetic signals from samples via the fluorescent light emitted by a diamond defect (the so-called nitrogen-vacancy color center). Diamond defects carry a spin that is very sensitive to magnetic fields, owing to the Zeeman effect, and as the optical rate of emission depends on the defect’s spin state, we can measure small fields simply by looking at the fluorescence intensity [1].


Basics of nanoscale magnetic microscopy using NV centers in diamond.
Our goal is to place a diamond defect in a nanocrystal and attach to a scanning probe - in this way we can perform nanoscale imaging. Our scanning diamond magnetometer will have the capability to measure the dipole field of single electron spins, or monolayers of organic materials containing proton spins, at room temperature. Combination of diamond sensors with magnetic resonance spectroscopy will then allow us to perform nanometer-resolution chemical analysis of a wide variety of organic surfaces and other materials.

diamonds_layered_S.gif
Left: Diamond nanocrystal attached to a tungsten STM tip
Right: One-by-one positioning of seven nanodiamonds using a nanomanipulation stage in a scanning electron microscope (work together with Tjerk Oosterkamp and Ronald Hanson)
For our diamond experiments we are currently assembling a dual confocal – atomic force microscope with optical access from both sides. The apparatus also incorporates a permanent magnet with precisely adjustable field orientation to access large bias fields for doing spectroscopy. This instrument will allow us to study individual diamond NV centers and to perform magnetic imaging and spectroscopy experiments on a range of transparent and opaque samples. A second important part of our experimental work is also to find efficient ways to fabricate, purify and chemically modify high quality diamond probes.

Further reading:

[1] C. L. Degen, "Scanning magnetic field microscope with a diamond single-spin sensor", Appl. Phys. Lett. 92, 243111 (2008). (link)" i should make a note that my main question is their other materials can be used to preform this measurements , i may indicate that i read this information long time ago maybe few years and re read them few months ago in a hope to have a chance in doing an R&D in relation to Coronavirus

but things not very good , and their is little chance for me to do that so i posted this few things here to raise attention to it and its applications that will save good few months in advance if it is useful of courses regards
hagop