Question about deep space pictures

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter gleen41
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Pictures Space
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of observing distant astronomical objects, such as galaxies and stars, through images released by the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST). Participants explore the challenges of predicting the current state of these objects, which are millions of light years away, and the methods that could be employed to estimate their evolution over time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that while we cannot know the current state of distant objects due to the light travel time, we can use observations of closer objects to inform predictions about the distant ones.
  • Others argue that predicting the future state of distant galaxies is similar to predicting our own galaxy's future, though it may be easier due to the edge-on view of the Milky Way.
  • A participant notes that while some stars in distant galaxies may have died or ignited since the light left them, the overall structure of the galaxies is likely to remain similar, though individual stars may have moved due to gravitational interactions.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that no information can travel faster than light, which fundamentally limits our ability to know the current state of these distant objects.
  • Concerns are raised about the limitations of current simulations and the difficulty in resolving individual stars at such distances, which complicates predictions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the light from distant objects represents a snapshot of the past, and while some predictive models can be applied, there is no consensus on the accuracy or feasibility of these predictions. Multiple competing views on the nature and extent of predictions remain present.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on observational data from closer objects, the challenges of simulating complex gravitational interactions, and the inherent uncertainties in predicting the future states of celestial bodies over millions of years.

gleen41
Messages
1
Reaction score
1
So I have a random question with all these talks of the pictures released from NASA by JWST. So these galaxies, stars, etc, are like 40 million light years away, so that light must've left these galaxies 40 million years ago, which means things have obviously changed. So are there any tests or processes to predict what is happening now to objects that far away? Or would that require bigger and more powerful computers to basically simulate the universe based on physics we know?

I tried googling this but I don't even know how to word my question lol. Hopefully this makes sense to people that know astronomy WAY better than I do. Apologies in advance for not knowing how to word stuff!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: berkeman
Astronomy news on Phys.org
gleen41 said:
So I have a random question with all these talks of the pictures released from NASA by JWST. So these galaxies, stars, etc, are like 40 million light years away, so that light must've left these galaxies 40 million years ago, which means things have obviously changed. So are there any tests or processes to predict what is happening now to objects that far away? Or would that require bigger and more powerful computers to basically simulate the universe based on physics we know?

I tried googling this but I don't even know how to word my question lol. Hopefully this makes sense to people that know astronomy WAY better than I do. Apologies in advance for not knowing how to word stuff!
The observations of the farthest (and earliest) objects will tell us more about what happened long ago, but we already have a lot of observations of the more recent (and closer) behavior of similar objects. We can see stars, galaxies, dust, etc. at different times in the past as they are closer or farther away. The theories of how things progress as time passes are based on those observations. We can then apply those theories to the farthest things observed to estimate what has happened since.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: collinsmark and anorlunda
gleen41 said:
So are there any tests or processes to predict what is happening now to objects that far away?
No different than predicting what our own galaxy might look like in 40 million years. Perhaps easier with the distant galaxy since our view of our own is painful due to seeing most of it edge-on.
Still, one can see the nearby objects and predict collisions and such. Andromeda is going to collide with the Milky way in 4-5 billion years, less time than the age of our planet. But we cannot yet predict where our solar system will end up due to that event.

The beauty of the distance is our opportunity to see into the past. The further away you look, the more you get a glimpse of the state of our young universe. There's little reason to speculate how those galaxies have changed since then, and their current age is frame dependent anyway.
 
gleen41 said:
So are there any tests or processes to predict what is happening now to objects that far away?
There is no way to know what's happening now, no, because nothing can get here faster than light to tell us.

You can do some prediction, although how much very much depends what you want to predict. 40 million years isn't much in the lifetime of most stars, so we wouldn't expect huge changes - some will have died, some will have ignited, all will be older, but most of the same stars ought to be there. Where they are is another matter - galaxies don't spin rigidly and stars move relative to their neighbours as they interact gravitationally. So I wouldn't expect the stars to be in the exact same layout, but there's no way we have enough information to write a detailed simulation. At 40 million light years I doubt we're resolving individual stars, let alone measuring their masses.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: FactChecker

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 66 ·
3
Replies
66
Views
6K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K