Question about Stress-Energy Tensor: A First Course in GR

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a statement from the textbook "A First Course in General Relativity" regarding the stress-energy tensor, specifically the condition under which certain components of the tensor are zero when forces are applied perpendicular to interfaces. Participants explore the implications of this statement and clarify the terminology used.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the statement that if forces are perpendicular to the interfaces, then ##T^i{^j}## will be zero unless ##i=j##.
  • One participant notes that the spatial components ##T^{ij}## represent the stress tensor, indicating the ##i## component of the force across an interface in the ##j## direction.
  • Another participant questions the phrase "perpendicular to the interfaces," suggesting it could be misleading and clarifies that it likely refers to being perpendicular to the plane of the interface rather than the normal direction.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the direction of a surface is defined along the normal, acknowledging the arbitrary nature of sign choices in this context.
  • One participant humorously references the divergence theorem and its sign conventions, noting an exception in a specific textbook that uses a different convention for surface-normal vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and seek clarification on the interpretation of the statement regarding the stress-energy tensor, indicating that there is no consensus on the understanding of the terminology used.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential ambiguities in the phrase "perpendicular to the interfaces" and the implications of sign conventions in mathematical expressions, which may affect interpretations of the stress-energy tensor.

GR191511
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I came across a statement in《A First Course in General Relativity》on page 97 which confused me.It read:"if the forces are perpendicular to the interfaces,then##T^i{^j}##will be zero unless ##i=j##".
Where the ##T## is stress-energy tensor,##T^i{^j}##is the flux of i momentum across the j surface.
 
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GR191511 said:
I came across a statement in《A First Course in General Relativity》on page 97 which confused me.It read:"if the forces are perpendicular to the interfaces,then##T^i{^j}##will be zero unless ##i=j##".
Where the ##T## is stress-energy tensor,##T^i{^j}##is the flux of i momentum across the j surface.
What confuses you about the statement?
 
Orodruin said:
What confuses you about the statement?
If the forces are perpendicular to the interfaces,then##T^i{^j}##will be zero?Why?
 
GR191511 said:
If the forces are perpendicular to the interfaces,then##T^i{^j}##will be zero?Why?
The spatial components ##T^{ij}## are in essence the stress tensor, which means that the components are the ##i## component of the force across an interface in the ##j## direction.
 
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Orodruin said:
The spatial components ##T^{ij}## are in essence the stress tensor, which means that the components are the ##i## component of the force across an interface in the ##j## direction.
Oh! I see...Thank you!
 
GR191511 said:
if the forces are perpendicular to the interfaces
"Perpendicular to the interface" is potentially a misleading phrase.

Does that mean perpendicular to the plane of the interface or perpendicular to the normal to the plane of the interface? Clearly the author means the former. But if I am trying to associate a direction with an interface so that I can judge perpendicularity, the direction I would would immediately choose is the normal. Perpendicular to that direction has a meaning opposite to the author's intent.

I struggled for a minute or two trying to figure out how the author's statement could possibly be correct until I caught on to the intended interpretation.
 
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The direction of a surface by definition is along the normal (with the sign choice arbitrary of course).
 
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vanhees71 said:
with the sign choice arbitrary of course
Have you told the divergence theorem this? 😁
 
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In the divergence theorem we have a sign convention followed in all except of one textbook source I know, i.e., with the surface-normal vectors of the boundary ##\partial V## pointing out of the volume, and (in Cartesian coordinates) ##\mathrm{div} \vec{A}=+\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{A} = \partial_j A^j##.

The only exception is Max von Laue's textbook on relativity. There he uses the convention to let the surface-normal vectors pointing inwards. It drives you nuts, when used for years to the "standard convention", but after all, it's just a convention!
 
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