Question about this Separable ODE statement in a book

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    Book Ode Separable
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a separable ordinary differential equation (ODE) presented in a book. Participants explore the implications of the equation's separability, the conditions for the existence of an inverse function, and the interpretation of the function involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to derive the formula ##x=X(t, \xi, \eta)## without knowing the exact shape of the function ##V##.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical transformation involving an integral and an inverse function, suggesting a method to express ##x## in terms of ##t## and other variables.
  • A participant inquires about the prerequisites for the integral function to have an inverse, leading to a discussion about the monotonicity and behavior of the function ##V##.
  • Concerns are raised about the formula ##v=V(x,\xi,\eta)##, with a suggestion that it could be expressed differently using energy functions.
  • There is a reiteration that the conditions for the integral's behavior are crucial for establishing a unique correspondence in the region of interest.
  • Some participants suggest that the formulas should be viewed formally, indicating that practical examples clarify the concepts better.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the equations and the conditions necessary for the existence of an inverse function. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of the author's presentation and the implications of the formulas.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for the integral to be monotonous and not diverge, indicating that the behavior of the function ##V## is significant in determining the validity of the derived expressions.

SchroedingersLion
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TL;DR
A question to a statement in a book.
Greetings,

I have a question to the following section of the book https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783319163741:

SCREEN.png


I understand that the equation is separable, since I can just write
$$ \int_{x_0}^{x} \frac {1}{V(x', \xi, \eta)}dx' =\int_{0}^{t}dt' .$$
However, without knowing the exact shape of the function ##V##, how can I know that I can bring the resulting formula into the shape ##x=X(t, \xi, \eta)##? Am I missing something or is the author a bit too imprecise here?SL
 
Last edited:
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From your equation, say
\int^x_C \frac{1}{V}dx'=G(x,\xi,\eta),
G(x,\xi,\eta)-G(x_0,\xi,\eta)=t-t_0
x=G^{-1}(t-t_0+G(x_0,\xi,\eta))=X(t,\xi,\eta,t_0,x_0)
where ##G^{-1}## is a inverse function of G as for x with ##\xi,\eta## and ##x_0##,##t_0=0## given.
 
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Thanks!

What is the prerequisite for the integral function having an inverse?
 
Integral should be monotonous and not diverge so V does not change sign in the region.
 
I find the formula ##v=V(x,\xi,\eta)## strange. I would write ##E(x,v)=h(=const)##. Assume that for some ##x_0,v_0,\quad E(x_0,v_0)=h## we have ##\frac{\partial E}{\partial v}(x_0,v_0)\ne 0## then for some small enough ##|x-x_0|## there is a unique function ##v=V(x)## such that ##E(x, V(x))\equiv h,\quad v_0=V(x_0).##
 
Last edited:
anuttarasammyak said:
Integral should be monotonous and not diverge so V does not change sign in the region.
How can you tell?

wrobel said:
I find the formula ##v=V(x,\xi,\eta)## strange. I would write ##E(x,v)=h(=const)##. Assume that for some ##x_0,v_0,\quad E(x_0,v_0)=h## we have ##\frac{\partial E}{\partial v}(x_0,v_0)\ne 0## then for some small enough ##|x-x_0|## there is a unique function ##v=V(x)## such that ##E(x, V(x))\equiv h,\quad v_0=V(x_0).##
But this is the same as the text says, your ##(x_0, v_0)## corresponds to its ##(\xi, \eta)##.
 
SchroedingersLion said:
But this is the same as the text says,
I have reread the text and yes, it is practically the same. Regarding your initial question I think that these formulas should be taken formally, in concrete examples everything is as usual clear. You have just been shown that the system is solvable in quadratures. This integral does not actually play a crucial role. Phase diagrams play
 
SchroedingersLion said:
How can you tell?
We can divide the region in order to keep unique correspondence.
 

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Thanks for the drawing, I understand!
 

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