Question re Galaxy Rotation Curve

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the shape of the "Expected from visible disk" curve in galaxy rotation curves, particularly focusing on the gravitational dynamics of stars within a galaxy's mass distribution. Participants explore the implications of Newtonian mechanics in this context and seek to understand the relationship between baryonic mass distribution and orbital velocities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the derivation of the expected curve shape based on Newtonian mechanics, noting that the formula V = √(GM/R) suggests a velocity that decreases with distance, which does not match the observed curve.
  • Another participant clarifies that the quoted formula is only valid outside the mass distribution, as stars in a galaxy are orbiting within the mass distribution itself.
  • A participant elaborates on the assumption of a 2D radially symmetric distribution of baryonic mass in a spiral galaxy, proposing a method to calculate the mass M(R) using an integral of the mass density ρb(R).
  • Questions are raised about the existence of a theory that provides a calculation for the function ρb(R) given the total mass M(∞), with a request for references to support this inquiry.
  • Further clarification is provided on the gravitational acceleration Ab(R) and its relationship to the orbital velocity V(R), including a corrected integral form for both M(R) and V(R).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Newtonian mechanics within the context of galaxy dynamics, and there is no consensus on the specific form of the baryonic mass distribution or the derivation of the expected curve shape.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of calculating gravitational acceleration based on mass distribution and the need for specific functions and integrals, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

Buzz Bloom
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The diagram below is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rotation_curve .

GalaxyVelocityDistribution.PNG

I would much appreciate a derivation explaining the shape of the "Expected from visible disk" curve in the diagram. Naively, based on Newtonian mechanics for the orbital velocity of a circular orbit,
V = √GM/R ∝ 1/R1/2 .​
Obviously, this is not the shape of the diagram curve. I suppose the diagram curve towards the right might be close to the above formula, but what is the derivation for the shape of the left part of the curve?
 
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The formula you quote is only valid outside the mass distribution (assumed spherically symmetric). In a galaxy, the stars are orbiting inside the mass distribution itself (they are part of it!).
 
Orodruin said:
The formula you quote is only valid outside the mass distribution (assumed spherically symmetric). In a galaxy, the stars are orbiting inside the mass distribution itself (they are part of it!).
Hi @Orodruin:

Thanks for your post. I apologize for being vague in specifying the information I was seeking.

I interpret your quote as implying that projected onto the primary plane of a spiral galaxy, the "disk" is assumed to have a 2D radially symmetric distribution of baryonic mass, including star mass, dust, and gas, say ρb(R). Then the mass M(R) for r < R is
M(R) = ∫0R π r ρb(r) dr .​
The total mass of the baryonic matter in the galaxy would then be M(∞).

Q1: Is there some theory that produces a calculation of the function ρb(R) given M(∞)? If so, what is it, and what is this function ρb(R) that the theory produces?
I have tried to find the answer to this on the internet, but, if it is there, my research skills are inadequate to find it.

Given ρb(R), I know how to write down a complicated integral for the value of the gravitational acceleration Ab(R) of a test particle at radius R based on this distribution. I am guessing that to calculate the function of V(R) for the lower curve in the diagram, it would be first necessary to calculate the value of this integral Ab(R). Then V(r) = √Ab(R)/R.

Q2: Please cite a reference, if you know of one, that shows the calculation of Ab(R) given ρb(R).

Regards,
Buzz
 
CORRECTIONS

M(R) = ∫0R 2 π r ρb(r) dr

V(R) = √(Ab(R)/R)​

ADDITION

Here is the integral form of Ab(R).
Ab(R) = (G/2π) ∫0R ρb(r) ∫0 [(r-R cos θ)/(R2+r2-2 r R cos θ)3/2] dθ dr​
 
Last edited:

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